Ep201 Daniel Andrews - Stop Networking, Start Building True Relationships: A Strategic Guide to Business Growth

Daniel Andrews 0:00

What most people are doing and calling networking is not networking, and it's not effective. They think it's just one more way to get your name out. Yeah, well, networking is part of my marketing strategy. Oh, well, sure. Networking is part of your marketing strategy. Building a network is not part of your marketing strategy. It is the opposite of marketing in every regard.

Mike O'Neill 0:21

Welcome to get unstuck and on target, the weekly podcast that offers senior leaders insights and strategies to not only lead with confidence and vision, but also to achieve groundbreaking results. I'm your host. Mike O'Neill, I coach top level executives on the power of ethical leadership to forge teams to be as united as they are effective in each episode, join me for insightful conversations with leaders just like you, providing practical advice to help you get unstuck and propel you and your company forward. Let's get started. You Music. Welcome to get unstuck and on target. I'm Mike O'Neill, and today we're tackling a topic that every leader can relate to, building meaningful relationships that create real business results. My guest, Daniel Andrews, is a master at helping leaders move beyond surface level networking to cultivating intentional, high value connections. In this episode, Daniel explains why traditional networking often misses the mark and shares fresh approach to creating strategic relationships that truly matter. We'll break down practical steps to connect with the right people, foster trust and build relationships that deliver measurable success. As an executive coach, I've seen how great leaders focus on relationships over transactions, and how that focus drives meaningful growth. So let's dive into this valuable conversation about leadership, connection and growth. Joining me today is Daniel Andrews. For over 28 years, Daniel has been dedicated to connecting like minded, talented individuals. His mission helping business leaders stop networking and start building genuine, mutually beneficial relationships through his innovative approach, Daniel empowers professionals to identify, meet and nurture key referral partners, transforming traditional networking into a strategy that drives measurable business growth. Welcome Daniel,

Daniel Andrews 2:40

thank you. It's good to be here. Mike, I'm glad we're able to connect on this.

Mike O'Neill 2:45

We began talking about you being on this podcast literally months ago. That gives our listeners some idea of how popular you are. You help a lot of people do what we're going to be spending time on how to stop networking and start building true networks to say, what is it about this, that kind of, how did you get into this as a line of how you help clients? Wow,

Daniel Andrews 3:11

that's really good question. And as a franchise holder for network and action, right? I my role is to bring people together, right? And I had been doing that locally for eight years, kind of a main street model. And a couple of years ago, about two and a half, I started doing a digital community that's nationwide. So we meet via zoom once a month, and in both cases, over the time period, you know, really in the first few years of even meeting the local groups, I saw that people were surrounded by the right people, surrounded by people that were positioned to be to be able to give them multiple referrals, and what I call a key referral partner. And they were getting some value from that, but they were they weren't getting the most value. And I started paying attention to what people were doing, what they were not doing, and you know, at what stop, you know, which train station they were getting off the journey. And I found that there are a couple of stops where a lot of people get off the journey. And I started figuring out, you know how to, how to, how to change that. And so as part of the communities that I host, and then other people as well, I support people that are trying to figure out how to develop a few close relationships, there will be consistent sources of referrals, rather than kind of a constant marketing by hand approach, right? What most people call networking isn't even networking. And from here on out, if I use the word network as a verb or the word networking, it gets air quotes, because what most people are doing and calling networking is not networking, and it's not effective. And you know, they. Think it's just one more way to get your name out. Yeah, well, networking is part of my marketing strategy. Oh, well, sure. Networking is part of your marketing strategy. Building a network is not part of your marketing strategy. It is the opposite of marketing in every regard. And people do, you know the potential was right there, and people weren't accept accessing it, and I figured out I needed to do something about it. And so I started showing them the roadmap, you know, how to take the journey all the way to the end.

Mike O'Neill 5:29

I may ask questions. You'll say, Mike, that's what people pay me to answer. So if I ask it, say, but what I would throw out to you is what I understood you to say is that you you looked at a lot of how people approach this. And you found patterns, patterns where people were maybe getting off track, yeah, is there a pattern to the pattern? Is there? Are there things that maybe people listening right now, if they hear you like they go, oh yeah, I do that, and I shouldn't be doing that.

Daniel Andrews 6:00

Yes, which is to say the two major departure points, right? I'm looking at your Appalachian trail marker behind you there, so we can use that for our metaphor, right? You know, some people are through hikers, right? And some people are section hikers. And you know, the section hikers are the people that take some of the journey and then stop, which is fine if that's all you wanted. In the case of building a network, I presume people are doing it for some form of Rev Gen, meaning, ultimately, the point is to make sales and add to the client base whatever business they're in. And so the two stops on the journey, the two trail heads, where they exit. And it will stick with the Appalachian Trail metaphor here, just because why not? Are the first is, they'll stop at awareness, right? They will, they will go out and they will handle a lot of business cards and shake a lot of hands. And, you know, here's my card, Mike, call me if you need me. Better yet, here's two cards. You know, if you ever find somebody that needs me, have them call me that that's marketing by hand. You might as well have gone into the parking lot, right, and stuck a flyer under everybody's windshield wiper and got home. That would have saved you time and money and calories, right, right? Digitally. You see it happen all the time. People come into the room right in a digital networking event and immediately start posting their information, sometimes more than once into the chat box. They don't wait until they've been called on. When people even care if they remember who's who, right? They just keep throwing, you know, and my events coming up and register for my class. And here's my contact info and walls of text for contact info, right? I put one piece of contact info in, and I usually DM it. I don't, I don't put it out for everybody, and that's my LinkedIn profile, yes, period. So they stop at awareness, right? Because they're not actually trying to build a network. They're trying to meet prospects. So, you know, speed prospecting, marketing by hand. You know, first cousins, right? They're both very superficial. Yes, the other stop, the other waypoint, the other Trailhead. There we go. We're going with the Appalachian drama. Before the other Trailhead people exit is they'll take the time to do some form of next actions. They'll go to lunch, they'll get into a call. They'll get on a zoom call, or whatever, go to coffee, and they'll briefly, usually and effectively, briefly try to persuade the other person that they are themselves referable and should have referrals sent to them. And even if they're successful in that, and most people are using a pattern or a series of questions and conversation that slow the process, but even if they're successful at that, you've now become referral in my eyes, right? And then they go, Okay, well, you know, Michael send me referrals when he gets them right? There's a guy in my town that runs two very successful businesses, one, a mastermind. I'll leave the brand name out, because this might come across as critical. The other, an entertainment business. Both of them were quite successful. I have a lot of respect for this guy, and I'll, I'll call him Billy Bob. That's my generic that's my generic guy. I don't any of you uses initials because somebody might the tail, might recognize it. But Billy Bob, which is not to play this guy's any way, shape or form redneck, by the way, he is sophisticated, as professional as you are, Mike. But Billy Bob and I was and I were talking, so what are you working on? Several years ago, I said I'm formulating the path, the journey people need to take to fix these things, you know, to get more referrals. He goes, Oh, I don't understand. Referrals are important. He said, I was just doing a spreadsheet last night of where my customers came from. And I said, of all the people I know, you're the most likely to utter the words I was just doing a spreadsheet. Didn't know where my customers came from. Now, since then, I've met Bruce Kaufman, and Bruce Kaufman is now the most likely person soon but, but Billy Bob was, at the moment, was the most likely person in my world out of those words. And he chuckled, because, again, you you're out of business. You want to measure results, right? You know, that's not a bad thing to do. And I said, I said, What's your high water mark? He said, one. You. Client gave me two. Now I don't know if he met two in the last year or two ever. That's a low number ago. She goes, No, wait. He said, You remember John Doe? And I said, Yeah. He said he closed his business, his mastermind business, and gave me his three best clients. So my high water mark is three. And I'm like, Well, you realize that he's not gonna, every five years, open a business, run at five years, and then give me three leads. And if he does, that's three every 10 years. That's terrible, right? And he goes, Yeah, that's not duplicatable. And I'm sitting here going, Wow, his high water mark is three in an unduplicable process, two. And what could be a duplicatable process, right? I'm like, you know? For one person, I'm like, oh, you know. So they wait for the leads to come to them, and they don't get into a system of consistently meeting with their key referral partners and supporting them and being supported by them. And you know, it's worth 30 minutes of my time to share one lead a month with you. That's 12 a year from one person, that's a 20 to 30 minute zoom call. Six of those people means 72 a year. 10 of those people means five hours of my life. Five half hour zones. Excuse me, 10 half hour zones and 120 warm introductions to ideal client profiles per year. That's more than most businesses can handle, unless you're in a high transaction, low margin business, right?

Mike O'Neill 11:28

What I've heard thus far, it's quality over quantity. What I'm also hearing is intentionality, and what I think I understand you to say is, when you select a referral partner. It's not on the assumption, oh, they might send me something is. The assumption is you limit the list, you find ways to be mutually beneficial. And the assumption is that this is going to result not in one, not in two, but multiple referrals. Therefore, if you're going to invest in these relationships, that one person might make a number of quality referrals, and those referrals are not cold, they're warm introductions. And so I'm hearing at least, if there's a secret to your strategy, it is quality over quantity. But could I ask when you are encouraging us be very selective who you have these relationships with, in terms of how do you qualify a quote referral? What does a referral mean to you?

Daniel Andrews 12:46

Okay, people use the word lead, prospect referral fairly indiscriminately, right? So it's worth clarifying, and I appreciate that the the and I think most of us serve at least a breadth of client, right? Meaning, most of us don't have one very narrow window for the

Mike O'Neill 13:11

sort of people we serve. Yes,

Daniel Andrews 13:15

it may be a very short description. If you're a roofing company, you serve homeowners and commercial building owners. You serve owners of properties, right? So it's a short description, but that's not inherently a narrow capacity, right? You probably restrict it geographically, right, etc, etc, but I think what, when you've got your key referral partners. You coach them a lot at the beginning, you can taper that off dramatically the longer they understand you, which is another reason to focus on a few people, not a lot, because the quality of the referrals goes up the more they understand your business, right? But I'm trying to figure out, you know, okay, so in my mind, there's an ideal client profile, there's the, I used to use the phrase demographics, and my coach told me the phrase ideal client profile, and then there's the trigger, right? And my coach, you know, I used to say psychographic, right? You know, who are they? What's going on in their mind, right? Yes, because no one's a prospect until they say they are right, they may look like one, they may sound like one, if you get close enough, they may even smell like one, right? But until the until something happens in their world that makes them consciously go, I need more information there now. It may be the awareness, and you can solve a problem that either they didn't think had a solution or they hadn't really pondered very deeply before. So it can happen in the moment, right? But there's got to be some notion that they might be served by what you have to offer, right? So there's got to be a trigger, right? And so when you describe an ideal client profile of somebody, right, they may spot those people, and then you can coach them on one or maybe two qualifying questions, right to determine if they're in a if they're in a mindset to be open to hearing about a solution for a problem, right? And I don't want my ideal client, I don't want my key referral partners to spend too much time drilling the other person, right, because I might lose an opportunity to create some value, but I don't want them to be careless about, you know, who they send my way, right? Yes, so I think one or two qualifying questions, right, to kind of comment on that. But the real value in the introduction is not another name. We do not need anybody else to get more names at our disposal. Our linkedins are full, right? $100 worth of SEO can get you a one day spike in your category, right? You know, you can go on Facebook and post and post and post and post, right? You can reply to everybody's comments on LinkedIn, and hope that gets you. You know, it's like waving away. You get some awareness, right? And I'm not interested in access to more people. I only belong to two of the six chambers of commerce in my city. My interest in access to more people. I'm interested in being introduced to the right people. And the reason why the introduction is important, it's not because I'm too lazy to go knock on the door myself. It's because the credibility that's transferred when someone makes the introduction. If Suzanne Taylor king said to you or me, you need to meet with Jason Croft for a minute, we would go. I don't know who he is, but Okay, did you give him my calendar link, or do I need to give it to him?

Mike O'Neill 16:47

Right? Okay,

Daniel Andrews 16:48

might I ask, am I buying his thing? Is he buying my thing? Are we collaborating on something? But we're gonna assume the meeting needs to be held, right? Because we know that she knows us well enough to know what a good introduction looks like for us. So that's what I'm looking for. And when Jason gets on our calendar, whether he's buying or selling, we're in, he's inclined to believe us, and we're inclined to believe him, because we know Suzanne Taylor king doesn't introduce us to riff raff.

Mike O'Neill 17:17

Well, for those who are listening, Suzanne Taylor King is someone that both Daniel and I know very well. Suzanne's my coach, and in the example you just gave, she did suggest you gotta talk to Jason. I didn't necessarily because she suggested it, I automatically reached out to Jason, saying, in the back of my mind, if Suzanne says we should talk, then we should talk. Well, it might be a come to no surprise, Jason is now my Podcast Producer. He does high quality work, but it would not have taken place if I didn't have a relationship in place, whereas Suzanne had a clear idea of who I was, what I'm trying to do, and she made a recommendation that she felt could be a good match. Gail, may I go back just for a moment, because I asked a question earlier about contact information, and you said that you really only supply one thing your LinkedIn profile. How important is that to people to have a LinkedIn profile that is spot on?

Daniel Andrews 18:33

I would state it depends on your business, right? If you're in some form of direct sales, or, you know, you're a Mary Kay rep, or you know, maybe Facebook is where you need to be, right? I don't know, for professionals, anybody doing B to B work, you know, LinkedIn profile, I think is important. And when I say that's all I give, please be aware that that's all I offer when I'm in a networking event online, which you haven't been in months, because the referrals are coming in at the rate I need them to and you can get to my calendar from there, but you got to think, you got to try, right? You got to get to my website and my website and pray I get on my calendar, right? But I think a LinkedIn page that's at least current, I don't look at them closely. I scan them quickly, right? There's some people that are readers, and they'll parse every line. There's even AI readers that will read a profile and tell you how to respond to this person, which I only put a little bit of stock in, primarily because I know plenty of people pay other people to write their profile, so it's not necessarily in their voice, right? So the AI could be tricking us, because, right? And I'll put this out there, right? There's stuff on LinkedIn, and I'm like, Oh, that's really smart. I should really smart. I should like that. Then I'm like, Oh, I wrote it. And by that, I mean I wrote it my social media person, right? And the only reason I've got posts going up on LinkedIn, and I'll be super, super vague on this, is the person that does it for me owes me a lot of money, and this is my chance to give them some integrity. And some dignity and working off the money

Mike O'Neill 20:04

gotcha right.

Daniel Andrews 20:05

When the debts paid, I will be doing in more LinkedIn posts, because, you know, so LinkedIn, given that that it could be artificially generated, I don't put a lot of stock on what people put up there. I don't read it very closely. I'm interested in knowing what they're doing currently, what they did in the past, and I am interested in their recommendations. I spend time there, because what I'm looking for trust, do people that I trust, trust now, right? Who has said things about them, and how's it worded, right? So I believe the recommendations are the most important part of that. But well, what you do clearly stated what you did in the past, and recommendations, I feel that's what I focus on. But I may be trying to achieve, you know, something different than other people, too, Dan, and one reason

Mike O'Neill 21:01

I was interested in having you on the podcast is because I have invited on the podcast. I've had experts, I've had LinkedIn experts, I've had social media experts, and I'm not diminishing those at all. No, what I'm hearing you say is you're not diminishing either. However, what you're counting on to be really the business development driver for you are selected, curated relationships.

Daniel Andrews 21:31

That's absolutely a true statement. And I think, you know, marketing, whatever that consists of, SEO, social media, you know, post, podcast, whatever. There's nothing inherently wrong with it. The two things that building a network and marketing share in common. One is that they're related to business development. We're both pursuing each of those activities with the hope of putting more money in the funnel, right? You know, more money in the bank account, I should say, not in the funnel, in the bank account. The only other characteristic they both share in common. And again, this is not implied that one is a subset of the other because they are unrelated to each other. But the other characteristic they have in common is that messaging is critical. That's it, okay. But the difference is social media involves, or marketing in general, involves a very wide front end funnel, right, where you're hoping to impact as many people as possible, get some of their attention, create some awareness, create some degree of possibly credibility or curiosity, where they'll get into a conversation with you. Some of them will come on board, right, and then you have your ideal client, right? The problem is the numbers, you've got to reach a certain number of people to get a certain people to engage with you, to get a lot of less than ideal clients to engage with you, to get ideal clients to engage with building a network as the opposite effect, right? I'm interviewing them to see if they're worthy to be my client. And I don't say that in any sort of you know, I'm just so good at this, but I've got more people coming into my world that meet my ideal client profile than I can serve. So then my question becomes, you know, I get to choose. I get to be picky about who's coming on board, right? I've the filtering has already been done through other people's relationships in that regard. And I got a conversation with somebody one time, and this is a short podcast, short version of it, but he said something about he said, I'm proud of the fact that of 18,000 connections on LinkedIn. And I said, I'm proud of the fact that I have 1800 people that would actually return my phone call, and he looked through the screen and he said, yeah, there's a difference in there. I said, yeah, there's a really big difference, right? The only number that matters is revenue. That's the only thing that's the objective of running a business, right? As John says, If you don't have a business that pays your bills. It's not a business, it's a hobby, right? If your business invader bills, not a business, a hobby, okay? Revenue. The only two numbers that make up that number, the only two other two numbers worth measuring are how many people are giving me money and how many people are referring people to give me money because you can have 10 followers and nine of them referring you, and that's great. You have 100 followers and one of them are referring, I don't the 100 means nothing. How many people are giving you money? How many people are referring people to give you money? That's it. Those are the only two numbers that go into money. And so, you know, in my opinion, everything else is is an ego metric, or you're using the broadcast approach, where you're hoping enough people that are your ideal client will filter into your system, which, to me, is a very passive. I'm not saying that doesn't take work and energy, but it's a passive you're waiting for the right person to show up in your. World, rather than counting on your referral partners to make the right people show up in your world, right? If I never made another outbound phone call to somebody that I didn't know and I only worked off introductions, which is really where I'm at, my calendar would be if I gave more room on my calendar, I would have more people than I can serve if I made more room for our calendar, if you get introduced to me by somebody at trust Suzanne, trust, Suzanne Taylor King, Mike O'Neill, today, it's probably going to be January before you can meet with me. Now that's partly due to the weirdness of December, but it's usually two and a half to three weeks out.

Mike O'Neill 25:34

And for those who are listening, we're recording this in early December. Matter of fact, we booked this earliest I could get this on your calendar was about six to eight weeks out. It was, it really was, you know, I want to come back to something you said a few minutes ago, and you mentioned the word transparency. Let me be transparent with with you and to our listeners. I serve on a board called the International Business Council. It's part of a chamber in my area, and I'm the immediate past president. Okay, we hosted an event this week, and it was kind of a holiday themed event, so it was kind of loosely structured. But what do you do at these things? You go around and and say hello to folks. But I was listening to, how did people introduce me to the two others? And yeah, I was a little bit sober. I don't mind telling you. By the contrast of how I was introduced, it told me that I need to do a better job of making sure they know who I am and how I help. One was a CEO who introduced me, and I was, I think I literally blushed by what he said. He didn't go down the list of Mike does. This, this, this, this, he basically described his take on me, and I was very flattered by that, but what he also knew is based on observations of me. He says, Here are the kinds of things that Mike solves. He didn't have to go down the list of leadership development, executive coaching, HR consulting. He just says, These are the problems that Mike solves, and I have a high regard for Mike, and then he could walk away, and I have a conversation with someone who is already leaning into the conversation based on that introduction.

Daniel Andrews 27:31

And that's, there's several lessons tied up in that. And one is, your only opening message should be the types of problems you solve. I am until I know, until I want a solution to my problem, the way in which you solve it is irrelevant to me, meaning I'm not a prospect. Yet, there are plenty of people for whom I am a prospect. I have plenty of people for whom I am a client. I still don't know how they do the magic they do. I pay them a check, so I don't have to understand stuff, right? So now the the the disconnect occurs because we, as providers of some product, service, goods, you know, whatever, have a healthy part of our ego caught up in the experience of working with us, right? Daniel Andrews is coach, and I'm not the only one that coaches this stuff. By the way, I've met several people. Is different than your experience. Than your experience with Christine Dean or this guy I met yesterday, Jason, some somebody or other, right? You know, working with Mike O'Neill or Jason Croft is different than working with other people that do what they do. So we have a healthy ego caught up in the experience of, you know, working with us, right? We've thought about our processes. Our processes may be unique. They may just be the personality we put into it, but they're very well thought out. We have an input, a process and an output, and we're happy about our process, or enthusiasm about it, as we should be when you're talking to a prospect. You know, met a gal that runs a day spa, and she's, you know, back to me in the corner and talking, you know, for five or six minutes about, you know, you know hair removal and laser, and you know, wrinkle reducing, and you know, the experience of being in her spa. And I'm like, do I need a mirror? Am I a prospect? Because I'm not a prospect, until I tell you I am number one, right? I said. I said, Do I look, sound smell like a prospect? Number one? I said, my second is, or do you expect me to remember all this and parrot it to somebody else? No, right? All I need to know is she's good at her job, and when I'm in the men's room watching me and the guy next to me looks in the mirror, pats his face, trying, goes, Hey, you need to go talk to Susie. Q, right? I've got an introduction for you, right? That's it. This. The specifics of her program mean nothing to me, right? That's not how I'm going to identify. Prospect for her, right? By going, Hey, by the way, did you know if it's Susie Q's post, you can do this, this, this, and this is and the process looks like this and this and this and this and this. And, dude, you really need to get those wrinkles fixed. You kidding me? You know that's not how that conversation is going to go, right? So letting other people introduce you tells you what message they have about you, which, by the way, can be, as you said, sobering if they're way off track, by the way, whose fault is that

Mike O'Neill 30:26

comes back to you. I know that this is what you do for a living. This is how you help your clients. You help them understand this at a deeper level in this time together here, I know we can't go to that level of depth, but what I am picking up on is if people can say to others, not so much what you do, but the problems you solve, and they can do that in a compelling fashion, that's golden,

Daniel Andrews 30:58

clear, concise and compelling, because those are the only reasons someone will repeat your message if it's clear, concise and compelling,

Mike O'Neill 31:04

yes, and you just repeated it twice for punctuation as a reminder to us, what is it we need to be doing out there. My

Daniel Andrews 31:13

coach has to keep reminding me to bring it back to the basics. I coach this, and yet I have to be because our healthy egos are caught up in what how cool it is to work with

Mike O'Neill 31:21

us. Yes, Daniel, you've worked with a lot of folks over your career. Can you think of an example where either you or a client got stuck, and when that happened, what did it take to get unstuck?

Daniel Andrews 31:38

I can use a clear example, because I'd like to think I fixed it in a matter of seconds, right? Maybe I didn't, but I also like this example, because it comes up a lot, a lot people will say to me, I like helping, right? If somebody comes to me and needs a resource, an introduction, a prospect, a cure, referral, partner, I don't mind making that introduction, but it's really awkward for me to ask someone else to support me, and I say, Ray, and he may be local, but he's fine with me using this example. He and I are actually very close, and I know there's a lot of rays in my town, so I'm not too worried. But anyway, if somebody figures out it's not a bad big, big deal, Ray said that to me, and I said, Ray, let's forget about asking for a minute. Let's focus on how good it feels when you give he said, you like that part? He goes, Yeah. Said, How does it feel? He goes, it feels good. I said, Come on, it feels better than that. Give me an example. So we brought up something, and I and I did the Tony Robbins thing, where I made it up close, vivid color and loud, right? You know, I helped him image, right? So his body physiology is processing this, right? He's almost in the same sort of dopamine hit, borderline euphoria from when this happened. And I said, feels pretty good, doesn't it? And Ray's like, yeah. I said, Why would you rob other people of the chance to feel that way when you don't ask for what you need, you're robbing them of the chance to feel good. And he's like, dang. So when people say that to me, I tell that story. I make that point. I said, I said, if I can fix it in five minutes, you know, a minute and a half. Great, if not. Let me refer you to Monica basin off, because if you need more help than that, she'll fix it for you, right? But if you can accept the short version, you know this, this will solve a lot of your problems, and it's it's because people feel good, but it's also because of their healthy egos. At an event, Josh is looking for work, Mike is in a position, and I only knew Mike. I went to this event because of Mike. I flew from here to Salt Lake City for golf because he said it would be worth being there. And I trust Mike, so I'm there. And Josh keeps thanking Mike. Thanks for this introduction. Thanks for this resource, right? Josh is between roles. He's not, you know, some dude begging for a job. He's a professional like you and I be looking for a role and and Mike's like, no problem. Just like, if anything I can do, and just like, I don't, you know, Mike's like, I don't keep score, man, anything I can do, I just love to help my friend. Help my friends, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was at breakfast the next day with Mike. I said, Mike on his, you know, permission to speak freely. He said, Yeah, from you. He said, You can say anything, because, you know, the trust level is high with you. And I said, Josh was telling you, it feels uneven. Josh was telling you. I said, if you keep it up, it's going to start to feel condescending to him. No, Josh, you can't do anything for me. I'm in service to the world, and just, you know, I said, you either need to think of something he can do for you. I wouldn't suggest having him come mow your lawn, because he doesn't live in the same city, but that could be it, right? I would suggest kind of something small that he can do, but making out like it's a big thing, lying about the size of the, you know, balance in the scales, or find something he can do for someone else, but make out like it's favored you. Hey, Josh, I want anything from you, but my buddy, Mike O'Neill really needs introduction. Conversation to somebody in x field, right? Would you get into a quick thing with Mike and see if you can help me? That would be a huge favor to me. If you could help Mike O'Neill out, and Josh would be like, Yeah, I'll do that. Right. Give away the favor, transfer the favor, but let Josh feel like he's valuable in your world, because otherwise it's condescending. Over giving will kill the relationship as surely, not as quickly, but as surely, as overtaking and people miss that, but I see a lot of people get stuck on the fact that they love to serve, but they're not willing to ask to be served.

Mike O'Neill 35:33

Very insightful. You know, Daniel, as we wrap up, could you leave us with one final thought, maybe an actionable takeaway or piece of advice that leaders can apply to their leadership or business building journey?

Daniel Andrews 35:47

Yeah, absolutely. I think one thing where people missed the boat early on is they're not strategic about who they build their relationships with. If you're a real estate agent in my city, and you convince me that you're referable as a real estate agent, I may have one or two leads a year for you, because most people I know are looking to buy or sell property in this moment, number one and number two. Most of the people that are already know a good real estate agent, right? Somebody they trust? Somebody they trust, right, okay. But if you convinced a mortgage lender or a funeral home director or a nursing home director or a moving company or a divorce attorney, they come in contact with one or two a day, yeah, right. And so why invest the time with me when you can only meet with so many people in a day, week, month or year? Why not invest it with somebody that's strategic, right? The Moving Company and the divorce attorney are key referral partners. The salary negotiation coach John gates and the resume writing coach, Amanda Val bear, our key referral partners. Amanda is never going to hire John. John's never going to hire Amanda, but John's prospects and clients need to be introduced Amanda. And Amanda's prospects and clients find the person that's selling to your market, but they're not selling what you're selling. I call them a parallel sales person, right? If you're a bookkeeper, it's the payroll company and the tax attorney, right? If you're the IT guy, it's the merchant services and if office furniture, if you're the office furniture, it's the commercial real estate agent. If you're the financial planner, it's the divorce attorney, right? Find the person that's positioned to consistently give referrals, and take the time to uncover your referability, but also to discover their referability, because you're looking for a mutual partnership. I don't like the word reciprocity. I don't like the word matching. I teach mutuality. At any moment, it might be a little out of balance, but over time, it's going to balance out. So find the people that you can be mutual with, and build those relationships instead of this randomness.

Mike O'Neill 38:07

What a gem. I love that that last thing you just shared before we close, Daniel, I want to leave our listeners with this question, and the idea is, why do people choose to follow your lead? Is it out of obligation or because I believe in your vision, empowerment starts with clarity, confidence and resilience. As an executive coach, I help leaders build these strengths to inspire their teams and drive meaningful results at bench builders, our mission is to transform good leaders into great ones through practical strategies that deliver lasting impact. So if you're ready to elevate your leadership, visit bench builders.com to learn how we can help. Daniel, thank you again for your valuable insights. For listeners who want to connect with you or learn more about your work, what's the best way for them to recal,

Daniel Andrews 39:03

easiest place is to go to my website. And let me point out that you can't google my name because it matches an Australian parliamentarian who's quite bombastic and has filled all the Google search returns for his name. So you actually have to go to my URL. You cannot search for Daniel Patrick Andrews, but you can go to www dot Daniel Patrick andrews.com, and you can find me there, and that's got links to my calendar, links to my LinkedIn profile, links to accumulation of my testimonials, right about the work that I do, but that's a good place to start if somebody wants to find it. Daniel Patrick engines.com, if those of you are driving down the road just want to make a phone call or text, I don't mind putting my phone over out there. 803-361-6825, I think phones are personal, and text first, right? And just say. Mike O'Neill show got a question, and I'll pick up the phone or call you back.

Mike O'Neill 39:58

Well, we will also include. And that and your phone number in the show notes, I do want to thank also our subscribers for tuning in, and I hope that today's conversation sparks some fresh ideas and inspiration to help you get unstuck and on target. Thank you for joining us for this episode of get unstuck and on target, I hope you've gained insights to help you lead with confidence and drive your organization forward. Remember, at bench builders, we're committed to your success, your leadership excellence and your strategic growth. If you've enjoyed our conversation today, please leave a review rate and subscribe to keep up with our latest episodes. This show really grows when listeners like you share it with others. Who do you know who needs to hear what we talked about today? Until next time, I encourage you to stay focused on the target and continue to break new ground on your leadership path. I