Ep182 Alp Kirmizioglu - Building an empire within an empire: The art of intrapreneurship

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Alp Kirmizioglu
know, try to avoid new on new on new.

00:00:02:19 - 00:00:08:22
Alp Kirmizioglu
So when you're trying to do something, you know, you try to, you know, isolate those things and doing gradually.

00:00:08:22 - 00:00:15:21
Alp Kirmizioglu
was kind of how we approached it in order to, have the capacity to deal with the challenges that were going to come,

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Mike O'Neill
welcome to Get Unstuck and On Target, the weekly podcast that offers senior leaders insights and strategies to not only lead with competence and vision,

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Mike O'Neill
but also to achieve groundbreaking results.

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Mike O'Neill
I'm your host, Mick O'Neill. I coach top level executives on the power of ethical leadership to forge teams to be as united as they are effective

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Mike O'Neill
in each episode.

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Mike O'Neill
Join me for insightful conversations with leaders just like you, providing practical advice to help you get unstuck and propel you and your company forward.

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Mike O'Neill
Let's get started.

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Mike O'Neill
Joining me is Alkermes Zola Albus, the executive managing director of construction for Range Water Real Estate, a fully integrated rental housing company with assets across the Sunbelt and Mountain West. In his role, ALP oversees the construction, management, design, management and quality control functions in support of all the projects under development, while also managing a range of water construction that is rain water, in-house construction company.

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Mike O'Neill
Today's topic is going to be Inntrepreneur ship and you'll see why shortly. Welcome out.

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Alp Kirmizioglu
Great to be with you, Mike.

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Mike O'Neill
Alb. We've had a chance to chat on more than one occasion, just by means of kind of introducing to our listening audience. What caught my attention about you was several fold. One is what you do, but to your interest, you have a strong interest in developing people, developing organizations, and that obviously is right up my alley. So I thought you would be an interesting person to one not only connect with on LinkedIn, but as we interacted.

00:02:10:12 - 00:02:36:05
Mike O'Neill
I thought you'd make a great guest in large part because you were brought on at rainwater to start a new business. That is the, an in-house construction company. Can you kind of set the stage for us out? Tell us a little bit more about range water and what is it they did and why did the decision be made to start a construction arm?

00:02:36:07 - 00:03:03:18
Alp Kirmizioglu
Sure. You're happy to. so company today is, 60 years old. So, about four years ago, they decided to integrate vertically into construction. at that point, company had done really well at its core business, in development and had grown to a certain size. And they were, really looking to take the next step in the company's evolution.

00:03:03:18 - 00:03:26:20
Alp Kirmizioglu
So it was a strategic initiative to bring construction in-house. the maybe kind of an example I can think of that maybe a broader, you know, viewership can relate to as, Amazon integrating into logistics. I think about that a lot. So when you think about Amazon as an online bookstore, that's how it started as a lot of facets of its business.

00:03:26:22 - 00:03:52:13
Alp Kirmizioglu
but its biggest cost is really logistics. And, talking about warehouses and the final mile delivery and trucking. and then we, you know, after a certain point, they felt the need to, bring that in-house. It's that's driven by two things. First of all, it's a key driver of performance. because charging is your biggest risk when you're a developer.

00:03:52:15 - 00:04:20:02
Alp Kirmizioglu
if you cannot execute in construction, obviously your investment is at risk meaningfully. second, there's a financial element of that. two thirds of a development projects cost is in the construction. So the idea is to take a call center, a very significant one, and try to convert to a profit center. that makes sense. So those are the reasons why, and for that, you know, they made the decision, leadership here about four years ago.

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Alp Kirmizioglu
And I joined the company shortly thereafter with that, you know, with that remit. and we've been on our journey since.

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Mike O'Neill
When I introduced the topic of entrepreneurship. I'm contrasting that with entrepreneurship. And before we go too much further. let's make sure that you and I on the same wavelength. And that is when I use the term entrepreneurship. I, I think it means a certain thing. Why don't you define it as you understand entrepreneurship?

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Alp Kirmizioglu
Sir? Yeah. It's a, ultimately you are creating a, you know, something new. but within an existing structure, within an existing, in this case, an existing company, existing organization. so it is, has certain elements that are very blank canvas. but also at the end of the day, it needs to be a very good, puzzle piece for the overall company.

00:05:18:06 - 00:05:29:17
Alp Kirmizioglu
so you cannot, you know, this to fit was an existing business and, that that forms the context of a lot of the decisions, you make, you have to make to that journey.

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Mike O'Neill
You know, you mentioned blank canvas. That's the advantage of starting something new. But your company is 60 plus years old.

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Alp Kirmizioglu
61 six.

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Mike O'Neill
One six yes, nonetheless, in 16 years, a company really begins to take on, how they choose to do business. Yes. You have been tasked with starting a new business unit, but how have you aligned the vision that you kind of had going into the role with the broader goals of range water?

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Alp Kirmizioglu
great question. Yeah. I, I think first and foremost, there was a natural fit there culturally. what the company had set in place. And you know what I thrive in and my core values, those really good alignment, company was really, rainwater has a really good reputation in the marketplace. I knew all that from the outside.

00:06:26:11 - 00:06:38:12
Alp Kirmizioglu
I did my own research, obviously, throughout the process, but that was a very good fit out of the gate. So that part of it was not very, it didn't really require me to adapt much.

00:06:38:12 - 00:06:51:15
Alp Kirmizioglu
but obviously that's at the highest level. But as you kind of go deeper and deeper into the organization, you, you know, you find out, things you need to work on.

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Alp Kirmizioglu
and one of the biggest challenges for us, was the fact that, you know, construction company set up as an internal service provider for the development business. so, inherently, that's a relationship that can breed conflicts. because one side is revenue is the other side's cost. And you have, teammates on both sides that are trying to do really well.

00:07:16:06 - 00:07:35:09
Alp Kirmizioglu
and really, the biggest probably challenge from a leadership standpoint was to create an environment in which those sides of the House all in the same direction. true to the common goals of the company, rather than their individual, the trust set that, you know, point in time.

00:07:35:11 - 00:07:58:22
Mike O'Neill
You were recruited for this role. You knew going in that you might be presented with these types of challenges. What have you found has been most helpful to you into your team, to bring that team together, to deal with what is already kind of an inherent tension within by its nature. Revenue cost?

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Alp Kirmizioglu
I, I had had experience with, similar, you know, set ups. Not I wasn't in charge of creating one, but I've been on both sides of the equation, and my previous stop's my career, so I was, eyes wide open about, challenge. and, we really had a very good understanding out of the gate as to what was really important.

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Alp Kirmizioglu
when we were going to get around this new venture. so there was very good alignment with the rest of the leadership team, and we made that pretty much the most important thing. that is the main thing. there are a lot of challenges with creating a new company, that are technical in nature. but this one is very, cultural value based, challenge.

00:08:51:12 - 00:09:14:24
Alp Kirmizioglu
So, we were that was an expectation set out of the get go with every person we hired, as well as the teams that were already here. on the development side that were very there were very welcoming, because they understood what we're trying to do. And they also understood that, in order for it to be successful, it had to be set up a certain way.

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Mike O'Neill
You know, I'm encouraged to hear what you're describing here. I see all too often, companies lose sight of that. They look at this. This is a new business is supposed to generate money. They go hire a take charge type person, and before you know it, all of a sudden it's not working the way it originally was.

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Mike O'Neill
Kind of conceived. You know, you are part of a business that's been around for 16 years, but you're starting something new. You're nurturing something new. And innovation is something that I suspect you've had to tap into. And that is if you're going to be an effective entrepreneur, you have to be innovative in how you go about doing things.

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Mike O'Neill
Again, you don't know this questions coming because I didn't know I was going to ask it. So just now, can you think of maybe a time when you had to think and perhaps act creatively to solve a problem?

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Alp Kirmizioglu
I what comes to mind, Mike, when I hear that questions really? All the work we had to do to really integrate the two companies. So, we, you know, construction, you know, folks that are in the construction business have a lot of technical expertise related to the nuts and bolts of how a building comes together. and, what was maybe not in construction was a very, you know, old school industry.

00:10:35:15 - 00:11:16:17
Alp Kirmizioglu
We don't build the houses that differently now compared to, you know, a century ago. but innovation for us was really in the process of development. We took all that construction expertise that are traditionally on the back side of a project, and moved it all the way to the front end. and really have the upfront development folks have the benefit of that knowledge and in the planning of the projects can incorporate all of that, that which allowed us to so far get to a place where execution is a lot more seamless because we preplan the whole work, at the project level with all that, you know, knowledge that was embedded in

00:11:16:17 - 00:11:36:23
Alp Kirmizioglu
the construction, teammates that we got. So that was innovative. That's not, you don't always have that. It's very common with construction folks to kind of show up when you put a shovel in the ground, and, then you find a site finding out this problem. So we were very intentional about, you know, not doing that.

00:11:37:00 - 00:12:02:22
Mike O'Neill
The intentionality that you made reference to, it sounds like it was kind of baked in from the beginning. This is what we're trying to to do. But inevitably, legal challenges arise. you are in a very difficult industry, at least from an outsider looking in, construction. It would strike me that finding, talented folks with the right skill sets, the trades and the like.

00:12:02:22 - 00:12:18:22
Mike O'Neill
There's lots of competition out there. And what ways have you tried to position range water construction different than others that would make your company attractive to an applicant?

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Alp Kirmizioglu
I think, you know, we stand on the shoulders of what the company has accomplished the first decade plus of its existence, so that, great reputation, was very, you know, was very helpful. you know, out of the gate, one of the first things we had to figure out. Okay, what are we going to call this thing?

00:12:38:06 - 00:13:02:18
Alp Kirmizioglu
Is it a different name or is it, you know, range, water construction. So, you know, all the way down to those decisions you had to make? We just, you know, we're very, you know, we're thoughtful about that. and we really, the, the, the strategic decision we made was to really, only start construction in the markets that range water has established itself as the, you know, one of the best developers in town.

00:13:02:20 - 00:13:30:20
Alp Kirmizioglu
It's a local scale business construction that is, so we wanted to only build where we have already kind of had the reputation and knew what we were doing. And, you know, trying to layer in construction in the most risk, mitigated possible way. one of the, you know, advices I had received out of the gate, early on was, you know, try to avoid new on new on new.

00:13:30:22 - 00:13:53:18
Alp Kirmizioglu
So when you're trying to do something, you know, you try to, you know, isolate those things and doing gradually. so that was, was kind of how we approached it in order to, have the capacity to deal with the challenges that were going to come, but we're trying to, you know, minimize risk as much as possible on the front end.

00:13:53:20 - 00:14:26:00
Mike O'Neill
Help. Your company has a very well designed website. it describes who you are and how your company tends to operate. But as I'm envisioning when you're trying to attract folks into construction, they might not necessarily go to the website. What I love about what you just shared is that if you're going into communities that you already have a presence, an applicant can literally go see what it is that they're being asked to build.

00:14:26:02 - 00:14:55:18
Mike O'Neill
They can see the attention to detail. They have a clear focus on excellence. the professional, everything that you all touch kind of is conveyed. It would strike me as that is probably probably a very powerful recruiting tool to basically focus initially on where you have a stronghold. And because people can see it first hand, they know going right in what that expectation is, I think I applaud what you're all doing there.

00:14:55:22 - 00:14:58:21
Mike O'Neill
Has that met your also expectations that approach?

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Alp Kirmizioglu
Yeah. No. You hit the nail on the head. That's it. That was exactly what we hoped. and you know, one stops or else I would say, and it's not just the, just not the direct hiring, but also, construction is, you know, you have a lot of subcontractors, that sits, you know, under a general contractor.

00:15:20:19 - 00:15:43:19
Alp Kirmizioglu
so, you know, I mean, a lot of ways you're recruiting them as well, because when you think about it, our industry was, you know, things have cooled down over the last year or so, but we went through an unprecedented, you know, period in construction where, really there was great demand on subcontractors, services and materials suppliers services.

00:15:43:21 - 00:16:09:07
Alp Kirmizioglu
So, it was pretty much a seller's market in that sense. So we actually had to earn their business as well, even though that might not seem intuitive to everybody. so, that's why, you know, having to arrange water buying, a lot of the folks that we end up hiring or folks that we worked with, have had been on range water projects before in some shape or form, which was very, very helpful.

00:16:09:09 - 00:16:23:11
Mike O'Neill
Out. Given your interest in leadership, leadership development, what have you learned in the time that you've been in this role about leadership that has proven to be most surprising you?

00:16:23:13 - 00:16:29:20
Alp Kirmizioglu
Yeah.

00:16:29:22 - 00:16:49:04
Alp Kirmizioglu
I think, Matt, I would said maybe I had a hunch on this, maybe confirmed. but to the degree to which it is confirmed is surprising. I think, you know, when you're not in the seat, the way you imagined the envision, the job is a little, you know, quite a bit different than the way it ends up being.

00:16:49:04 - 00:17:22:00
Alp Kirmizioglu
It's all about, I think the technical side of it was going to be, one more, more important if you weren't standing, you know, the cultural leadership challenges. so I find myself spending a lot more time about how our teams are working together and lot less about the, nuts and bolts. you know, you know, building the, you know, building capabilities, building the systems during the process is that's very important.

00:17:22:00 - 00:17:35:24
Alp Kirmizioglu
That needs to be done. but, I think the most important part of that is just making sure that the teams are working well together. then, you know, you can get through a lot of, capacities.

00:17:36:01 - 00:17:50:20
Mike O'Neill
ALP, you have a very impressive academic background. And, you know, with Vance training with graduate degrees. what did you find that these excellent schools got wrong about the real world

00:17:50:22 - 00:18:16:16
Alp Kirmizioglu
Yeah. I've taken, you know, leadership modules and leadership courses and it's, you know, you have ethics classes and that kind of stuff. It's a good attempt. but I think it is. I don't know if you can learn it in the school setting, but it is a lot more important than, you know, actual, you know, to the, to the classroom content, if that makes sense.

00:18:16:18 - 00:18:25:16
Alp Kirmizioglu
you know, it's kind of uncertain, I guess it's all becomes about people and, you know, leadership ultimately as you, as you invest in your career.

00:18:25:18 - 00:18:43:23
Mike O'Neill
Yeah. I find it fascinating. Hear you describe some of the biggest challenges you have and maybe what that would be speaking to what is traditionally the question I would ask. And as examples where you get stuck with, you know, what did it take to get unstuck? You may want to elaborate on that, but you were anticipating more technical challenges.

00:18:43:24 - 00:19:06:08
Mike O'Neill
And you've what you found out is the the attention to the people aspects, the culture aspect, the leadership. That is what really has paid all, most in the long run. So let me go back to that question. Can you reflect on example where perhaps you, your company or maybe an a client got stuck? And when that happened, what did it take to get unstuck?

00:19:06:08 - 00:19:16:10
Alp Kirmizioglu
I think I can think of three things. first of all, you really need to have a long term plan and your guiding principles, right?

00:19:16:12 - 00:19:37:01
Alp Kirmizioglu
because when you get stuck, all you need to do is kind of take a step back and evaluated in the, you know, context of that. That's really the whole point of, you know, having a long term plan and having those guiding, that is the most important part, to I think you need a good group of people around you.

00:19:37:03 - 00:19:58:20
Alp Kirmizioglu
some days, my wife some days is a friend of mine that I worked with in the past. Sometimes a coworker here and sometimes with some, you know, advisor of some sorts. I have a personal coach, that helps me a lot as well. so you need, you need people that know you that have your interest in heart, and also can kind of help you get through those things.

00:19:58:22 - 00:20:19:21
Alp Kirmizioglu
and then third thing, I, I think this is something actually, learned here at Grange Water. is it's okay to lose a battle if you're going to win the war. so kind of playing the playing the long game with these, challenges and issues you're, running into. And maybe, you know, war is not the best analogy, but I think it's commonly understood.

00:20:19:23 - 00:20:50:19
Alp Kirmizioglu
it's okay to get on things, for the, for the greater mission. so it's, there were once in my life where, I thought my heels too deep. Now I reflect back on that and kind of got stuck, in a, you know, in a headlock with somebody and, that's, you know, I'm not proud of those moments, that were not, you know, productive and really wondering, you know, my position, when you when you personally get stuck, I think a lot of people get stuck with you, and that's actually selfish and irresponsible.

00:20:50:19 - 00:20:54:04
Alp Kirmizioglu
So I try a lot, and not to get in the way of things.

00:20:54:04 - 00:21:12:11
Mike O'Neill
So those are great examples. you know, we been talking about entrepreneurship, but there may be an aspect of entrepreneurship that we haven't touched on that you think might be important, ethical to mind.

00:21:12:13 - 00:22:01:13
Alp Kirmizioglu
I think it's been very rewarding. and the great actually intellectual challenge as well, to just kind of have that blank canvas. We kind of started with that. I liken it to, you know, imagine you're designing a new city. You would have, you know, perfect city blocks and perfect grid lines. you know, just having been part of organizations that were, doing things for a long time prior to me joining, just being able to do something from scratch with all those learnings and, creating something that is, you know, leaning in and without a lot of, you know, waste in it has been has been great.

00:22:01:15 - 00:22:19:24
Alp Kirmizioglu
and we, always, you know, try to, you know, look at things through that lens. you know, do we need to implement a new procedure? Do we need to implement a new process? Do we have to do this or, you know, there's there's beauty and simplicity, and there's a lot of wisdom and simplicity, I think.

00:22:19:24 - 00:22:29:08
Alp Kirmizioglu
So, creating something from scratch allows you to start with simplicity rather than, you know, take something that has already been too complicated and try to turn it around and simplify.

00:22:29:11 - 00:23:00:04
Mike O'Neill
So, you know, I have embraced the idea that, all organizations have some semblance of a life cycle to them, whereas you're part of an organization that's been around for 16 years. The amount of time that the your company's been around is much shorter than that. And I guess the question I would have for you is, how do you envision the business that you're leading right now?

00:23:00:06 - 00:23:09:17
Mike O'Neill
How do you envision it will mature? We have it. What are the things that you as a leader of this, aspire for this particular business unit?

00:23:09:17 - 00:23:26:08
Alp Kirmizioglu
we're very young. our leadership team is very, our CEO is was our founder, and those are really interesting. So we have a good bit of runway in front of us. so it's we're still in a very kind of high energy growth stage of our business.

00:23:26:08 - 00:23:29:14
Alp Kirmizioglu
I would say, even though we recognize that that's that was player in our space.

00:23:29:14 - 00:23:46:10
Alp Kirmizioglu
me personally, what I think about it's kind of my goal, every day is to really make myself obsolete. And, the it's easy to fall on the trap of doing everything yourself or putting your fingerprints on everything. because it's small enough.

00:23:46:10 - 00:24:12:22
Alp Kirmizioglu
You can control it early on. but that will not end up in a scalable business. And that is not the ultimate goal and definition of success here. this needs to, you know, be able to operate without me. and that's, that's the goal. So I try to be very disciplined about, not getting in the middle of things just because I can, I need to because we kind of run it, like, as if we're ten times the size.

00:24:12:24 - 00:24:31:18
Alp Kirmizioglu
If can make sense. and everything we do today, we kind of think about it as, okay, are we going to be able to continue to do this or, you know, or should we really invest the time now to make it more efficient? You know, you can, you know, if you're not worried about that, you can do a lot of but then that's how life gets complicated.

00:24:31:18 - 00:24:38:14
Alp Kirmizioglu
That's how you lose simplicity. So, we're kind of living with that, always in the backdrop.

00:24:38:16 - 00:24:54:13
Mike O'Neill
Yes. Real clear to me about that. Your strategic mindset has served you well. it came through loud and clear as you reflect on this conversation we've had today. What do you want our viewers and listeners to have as takeaways?

00:24:54:13 - 00:25:23:04
Alp Kirmizioglu
Have an and have a plan. I would say, and a lot of times I think the word is misused. people have some directional aspirations and they call that a plan. And it's not a plan. Plan requires but detailed plan requires commitment. And then, requires a lot of fortitude along the way to stick to those things.

00:25:23:04 - 00:25:40:15
Alp Kirmizioglu
Stick to your, you know, goals and your guiding principles. the business changes around you. You adjust. That's not what I'm talking about. But like what? You know, what is this company? What is it going to stand for? How are we going to go about it? What kind of, you know, organization do we want to be? Those things?

00:25:40:17 - 00:26:11:11
Alp Kirmizioglu
you need to, you know, figure out what front end. You need to stick to them. I've been very, very fortunate, here, for two reasons. I think. One, the company embraced, me and Ranger construction as an extension of me. very well. And I think, we everything we talked about before I joined as I joined the company, the leadership here that it's, held the sign of the bargain.

00:26:11:13 - 00:26:36:01
Alp Kirmizioglu
And that's not that. I don't take that for granted one day. And it's it's not. It's not always the case. and two, we've been very fortunate with the, you know, first ten people, if you would, that we hired, really, really good hit trades, folks that have come here for the right reason that are doing kind of, what, you know, what we all talk about.

00:26:36:01 - 00:26:50:20
Alp Kirmizioglu
And, so I've been I've been where kind of up and down on a 3 to 6 year. I've been very fortunate, with that aspect of it. So that just makes the job a lot more fun and promising a lot easier.

00:26:50:22 - 00:27:15:13
Mike O'Neill
Before we wrap up, I would like to challenge our listeners to a question and that it's it's a question that really affects all leaders. And that is, have you ever wonder why people choose to follow your lead? Is it Adam, your obligation, or do they genuinely believe in your vision? Leadership thrives on clarity and competence. It's not just about command.

00:27:15:15 - 00:27:48:21
Mike O'Neill
It's about cultivating practical solutions that drive real bottom line results. Visit Bench builders.com for personalized leadership strategies that leverage fortune 500 insights. We're here to elevate your leadership potential and help you make substantial progress towards your goals. Lead in a manner that inspires people to follow because they are drawn to your vision, not merely because they must. I encourage you to reflect on how you can lead with clarity and competence.

00:27:49:01 - 00:28:00:24
Mike O'Neill
Attracting followers not out of obligation, but inspiration out. Your insights have been invaluable. Thank you for joining us.

00:28:01:01 - 00:28:23:19
Alp Kirmizioglu
my thank you for, inviting me. Thank you for giving me the platform. This is, great. I, you know, I haven't done this before, and, you've been very helpful along the way and easing the nerves and, helping me get out of my comfort zone. So I really appreciate that. And I hope that, you know, listeners and viewers find the conversation useful.

00:28:23:21 - 00:28:32:08
Mike O'Neill
I'm confident that they actually will if folks want to engage with you further or have some questions, how can they reach out to you?

00:28:32:10 - 00:28:49:10
Alp Kirmizioglu
I think LinkedIn is the best, best avenue. so, I'm sure you'll have my name on the show notes. That's how I am on LinkedIn. So I welcome everyone to kind of reach out and reference this, and I'd love to connect with you and, see if we have some common interests in common connections.

00:28:49:12 - 00:28:56:05
Mike O'Neill
We in fact, we'll do that. We'll put all your contact information in the show notes. thank you. ALP.

00:28:56:07 - 00:28:57:07
Alp Kirmizioglu
Thanks, Mike.

00:28:57:09 - 00:29:09:16
Mike O'Neill
I also want to give a big thank you to our subscribers for tuning in, and I hope today's discussion provides you with some insights to help you get unstuck and on target.

00:29:10:24 - 00:29:14:24
Mike O'Neill
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Get Unstuck and on Target.

00:29:15:01 - 00:29:35:14
Mike O'Neill
I hope you gain insights to help you lead with competence and drive your organization forward. Remember it, Bench builders. We're committed to your success, your leadership excellence, and your strategic growth. If you've enjoyed our conversation today, please leave a review rate and subscribe to keep up with our latest episode.

00:29:35:23 - 00:29:39:23
Mike O'Neill
This show really grows when listeners like you share it with others.

00:29:39:22 - 00:29:43:10
Mike O'Neill
Who do you know? Who needs to hear what we talked about today?

00:29:43:19 - 00:29:50:24
Mike O'Neill
Until next time, I encourage you to stay. Focus on the target and continue to break new ground on your leadership path.