Ep181 Max Schneider - From Burned Out Consultant to Curating Extraordinary Experiences

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Max Schneider
started experiencing anxiety attacks in my mid 30s, and I just really lost sense of who I was as a person.

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Mike O'Neill
welcome to Get Unstuck and On Target, the weekly podcast that offers senior leaders insights and strategies to not only lead with competence and vision,

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Mike O'Neill
but also to achieve groundbreaking results.

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Mike O'Neill
I'm your host, Mick O'Neill. I coach top level executives on the power of ethical leadership to forge teams to be as united as they are effective

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Mike O'Neill
in each episode.

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Mike O'Neill
Join me for insightful conversations with leaders just like you, providing practical advice to help you get unstuck and propel you and your company forward.

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Mike O'Neill
Let's get started.

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Mike O'Neill
Joining me is Mac Snyder. He is a founder of Sand and Salt Escapes, a mindfulness retreat company based in Nazare, Costa Rica and Palm Springs, California. After a decade in consulting, Max was totally burned out. The long hours, back to back meetings and high stress. It took a heavy toll. He started experiencing anxiety attacks and felt like a shell of his former self to help untangle his brain.

00:01:20:12 - 00:01:49:08
Mike O'Neill
He and his wife took a month long surf and yoga trip to Costa Rica. It was an incredible experience, providing the space to slow down and focus on himself in a way that he hadn't in a long time. As soon as they returned, Max was inspired to create this type of experience for other high achieving professionals. And it's that journey and what they do for their clients that I think would be of particular interest to our listeners today.

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Mike O'Neill
Welcome, Max.

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Max Schneider
Thanks, Mike. It's a pleasure to be here.

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Mike O'Neill
Max, we've had an opportunity to speak now on two prior occasions. I was drawn to you for a number of reasons. One, you're just very, very personable. But two, what I love about your writing style. And that's how we met. We met on LinkedIn. I read some of your blogs and you just kind of laid bare what the real world, was.

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Mike O'Neill
How is impacting you and your relationships that led to you doing that? Why don't you give us a little more background?

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Max Schneider
Yeah, I appreciate the kind words. but, yeah, I think that idea of authenticity is a word that gets thrown around these days almost as a buzzword. And it's a little bit tough to kind of pass apart what that actually means and how to do it. But it's something I've really been working on. just being open and sharing the real truths, even sometimes a comfortable truth.

00:02:48:11 - 00:03:11:22
Max Schneider
Sit at the uncomfortable truth said I don't, have an easy time uncovering within myself, but we all have those. and getting a chance to share those with others. And share what my journey has been has been incredibly impactful. And as you said, I had a really tough time with burnout. I think a lot of us are really good at pushing through.

00:03:11:24 - 00:03:43:00
Max Schneider
Not a lot of us are really good at resting. And what I learned is that the harder you push, the harder and more intentionally you need to rest. And I didn't do that well for the very, the first decade plus of my career, I just continue to push. I got shingles, when I was in my 20s, I had started experiencing anxiety attacks in my mid 30s, and I just really lost sense of who I was as a person.

00:03:43:02 - 00:04:00:12
Max Schneider
and I think a lot of us goes through those ups and downs throughout different periods of our lives, whether that's in becoming parents, whether that's in a work setting, whether that's in community involvement. It can show up in a lot of different ways for others. But that ability to stay in touch with who we are as people, I think is so important.

00:04:00:14 - 00:04:16:01
Max Schneider
And that's a lot of why I like to be open. And, that is authentic. Going back to that word, with my story, because hopefully it helps others see within themselves some of those things that might be hiding around the corner, that a little bit tough to look at.

00:04:16:03 - 00:04:38:00
Mike O'Neill
You know, Max, I very purposely shared with our listeners that you took a month long trip to Costa Rica, and I did that because many people might say, I don't have a month, I barely have a week. But that one month that y'all took away, was that the first time that you had ever felt unplugged for that length of time?

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Max Schneider
100%. It was a huge leap of faith, and I was also somebody who had told myself that I don't have a month to take off. but when I mean, did they having anxiety attacks curled up on the ball in the middle of your living room floor? you kind of get backed into a corner a bit and you realize, like, maybe some of the things that I've been telling myself are just stories and that I can actually take a month and I can prioritize myself.

00:05:09:11 - 00:05:32:11
Max Schneider
we're so conditioned by society to place such importance on our work, such importance on all of these external factors that exist. And we're not really taught how to take care of ourselves and how to prioritize ourselves. And I, are very aware that there are some people who like. Yeah, it's really difficult to take even a weekend or a week away.

00:05:32:13 - 00:05:54:13
Max Schneider
and focus on ourselves in a month is an enormous leap. But I think the flip side of that is what happens if we don't. And you start getting yourself into this cycle where you have has a real impact on your health physically, mentally and emotionally. and for me, I just realized that it was a story that I was telling myself.

00:05:54:13 - 00:06:10:23
Max Schneider
And I can take time away. and focus on who I am. It's, it's one of many stories that over the last few years that I've realized that I've told myself that might not actually be based in the reality of, my existence.

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Mike O'Neill
Now, if I understand correctly, what has cannot emerge in your offerings is typically a kind of a week long, retreat. Is that a fair description? and I don't know if the week is a magic number or a. That's typical what people kind of look for. But when you're trying to help your clients maximize a week away, and I love to learn a little more about what is it that folks do while they're at one of these, retreats?

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Mike O'Neill
What is it about a week? Is a week enough time to get to the point that people feel recharged?

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Max Schneider
It is. I had an opportunity a couple of years ago to sit down and have dinner with a gentleman who is the head mindset coach of one of the major athletic brands in the area, based in the US. And he was sharing the he goes on these two week long meditation retreats and they're totally silent retreats. And I was so intrigued.

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Max Schneider
I had my own meditation practice. I engage with daily. but the idea of going on a two week silent retreat was that's a massive, massive difference than meditating for 15 minutes every morning. So I asked him what the experience is like to go and not speak for two weeks of what happens internally. And the way that he described.

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Max Schneider
What happens is that if you think about your brain as a pond, every input that we're getting every day is like throwing a rock into the pond. Some are bigger, some are smaller. So it's the emails or text messages, the phone calls, listening to podcasts, turning on the news, driving all of this information we're constantly taking in. We're throwing these rocks into our mind and kicking up water, making it like they're hitting the bottom, kicking up, mocking it.

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Max Schneider
Just by the end of the day is this jumbled mess. But when we start slowing down, when we start removing those inputs, all of a sudden that pond of our mind starts to become smooth and I go to see reflections off of it. And then after a little bit more time, you can start to see down into the water as the muck settles, you can see the nooks and the crannies, the rocks in the logs that are at the bottom, and you start to notice things you've never seen before.

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Max Schneider
And what we have found is when we host retreats for a week, it's a perfect amount of time to reduce those inputs, to allow for the pond to get smooth, to allow for people to see notice things in themselves that they haven't before, and to be able to better be able to see those and do the work on the on themselves.

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Max Schneider
So that week number has been perfect for us with just fitting in as we talked about, like the pragmatic demands of taking time off work while also getting enough space to be able to do that. Work on yourself.

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Mike O'Neill
Max says. I kind of been listening to you a but kind of reflecting on, our client base, and it seems as if, if I was to describe them, it's typically he decisionmakers. They may be company founders or they're in a senior leadership role. And if it's their business, they're entrepreneurs. If it's a corporate setting, they may very well have official time off.

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Mike O'Neill
Do you find that entrepreneurs, those who work for themselves, do they have a tougher time unplugging?

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Max Schneider
I think it depends on the person. I think though, speaking specifically to entrepreneurs, I think that there are certain almost archetypes of people who are entrepreneurs, different personality quirks, different neurological differences. I mean, neurodiversity among founders and entrepreneurs is incredibly high when you talk about things like ADHD, giftedness, autism, OCD. I fall into a couple of those buckets myself, and they took it up.

00:10:24:21 - 00:10:56:03
Max Schneider
And that's generally what you find in those populations. And I think that there is a tougher time sometimes as an entrepreneur when you don't have guardrails with your work, whereas you do in a corporate setting, like there are certain expectations, certain norms. But as an entrepreneur, as a founder, you're the one who's setting those. And when you have this ability to push in, sometimes almost a supernatural way, it can really be a difficult thing to dial that back.

00:10:56:03 - 00:11:15:01
Max Schneider
So that ability to rest, though, becomes so much more heightened that ability disconnect is so much more important for a number of different reasons. You talk about just be able to back out, see the forest for the trees, to give yourself some space to see things differently, but also when you're pushing your body and your brain that hard, it's the yin to the yang.

00:11:15:05 - 00:11:34:22
Max Schneider
You have to learn how to rest. Just as hard, just intentionally. And rest doesn't mean like turning on Netflix and vegging out on the couch. Rest means how are we actually recovering and regenerating both from a physical, from a physical, mental, and emotional perspective? So yeah, I think oftentimes we see our brands and founders having a bit more of a challenging time.

00:11:34:22 - 00:11:48:09
Max Schneider
You also don't necessarily have the team set up, depending upon what stage you're at, to be able to dedicate, to take over while you're not there, just given where a business might be in its overall life cycle as well.

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Mike O'Neill
Yeah, I've been intrigued. I went from, a corporate role, where I was very good at leading HR teams for fast growing companies. I had a team that I was leading. When you start a business, you start with yourself, and I, I remember very late. People early on said, oh, it must be so nice. You determine your own schedule.

00:12:10:22 - 00:12:38:09
Mike O'Neill
You could take off one year, but you want to take off. And the answer is, you can. But if you take off, you may not be growing your business. You may not be putting the foundation in place. You shared with me before we started this recording, something I found intriguing. Currently, my understanding is that you are. You kind of have to target audience as individuals, who need this type of restoration, if you would.

00:12:38:11 - 00:13:00:00
Mike O'Neill
And perhaps teams and I understood you correctly. there seems to be a need to differentiate from a messaging and the and the like. So the wider correctly that maybe you're in the early stages of maybe creating a new business specifically targeting teams.

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Max Schneider
We are. Yes. It's sort of it's been a very amusing journey for me to, over the last few years here. I've leaving the corporate world after burning out, and I'm never doing anything corporate related ever again. I'm only working with consumers, and we're just doing these direct to consumer retreats, and that's how things started out. But after running our first few retreats, I started to get some, inquiries from people in my network saying, hey, what you're doing is really interesting.

00:13:27:05 - 00:13:49:03
Max Schneider
How might we integrate that with our organization? And at first I was a little hesitant around it, but I, ended up having one of my former managers who's part of Ypo Young Presidents organization. he had left the firm we were with and was, is running a company, and he reached out and said, hey, my ypo for forum, their small group is having an off site.

00:13:49:03 - 00:14:14:06
Max Schneider
It's very aligned to the work that I'm doing. What I'd be interested in is militating it. So I said sure. It was a gentleman I trusted and said, oh great, yeah, I can do some content for this. So it was just me and a room. seven other or seven CEOs, and we spent a couple of days just doing a lot of work on ourselves and taking a lot of the mindfulness concepts of using the retreats and bringing them into more of a corporate setting.

00:14:14:08 - 00:14:30:12
Max Schneider
And after we did that, I went extraordinarily well. And all of a sudden this kind of light bulb went in my head and said, that was actually really rewarding, really meaningful for me to be able to bring back some of the things that I think are missing in a corporate setting, distill that idea of humanity and seeing ourselves as human beings rather than our titles.

00:14:30:14 - 00:15:00:17
Max Schneider
and a light bulb kind of went on a little bit of fire with me, so it within me. And then as we continued on, we had some more folks reach out and started partnering with different organizations to run these off sites. And what we've realized is that, to your point, there is a little bit of a differentiation and nuance in this kind of work when we're working with individuals on a retreat in Nazare Costa Rica, it is people who are looking for like a chance to step away from work, a chance to focus on themselves.

00:15:00:17 - 00:15:33:05
Max Schneider
And maybe they are fighting burnout or they're going through something personally, but from a corporate perspective, you're not looking for an escape. You're looking for something that's additive to the organization, something that helps solve for real pain points, not just for the individuals, but for the team and for the organization as well. So we are actually in the process right now of creating a second entity that is entirely focused on working with executives on intact teams to curate mindfulness off sites for them, where we show up, we check our titles at the door.

00:15:33:05 - 00:16:01:22
Max Schneider
We do no actual business work. We're not doing, strategy planning, none of that. But as human beings showing up as human beings. so yeah, we are in the process right now spinning up a second entity that's entirely focused on that. While still holding the sanctity of those retreats and getting a chance to be able to address both of them a little bit more effectively because they are two very different, and if customers, two very different sets of care about some two different problems that we're solving for regular listeners.

00:16:01:22 - 00:16:29:17
Mike O'Neill
No, this is an unscripted conversation. So, you know, this question is about to come, but I did read a blog article. You did, and I may have misread it, but my takeaway was you're in this idyllic setting. You're touting the importance of unplugging and taking care of yourself, but it doesn't mean you, as a business owner, are removed from the stress of owning a business.

00:16:29:19 - 00:16:44:13
Mike O'Neill
And I think you wrote about that. You know, that that's you could be in this very tropical setting, but still experienced some of things that your experiencing when you were living or working in a consulting capacity.

00:16:44:13 - 00:17:06:06
Max Schneider
for me, this really underscores the importance of mindful this. And when we talk about mindfulness, it's the ability to just exist and observe the present moment. Absent any sort of judgment that that awareness, that mindfulness can be in a few different ways, you can think about it externally in your external environment and being very present with that.

00:17:06:06 - 00:17:28:01
Max Schneider
And you also have maybe your internal environment with you as a person, your own thoughts, your own feelings, the own physical sensations in your body. And for me, why mindfulness has been so impactful is when we find ourselves in these settings. And that's where we are still physically separated, but you still are carrying with you a lot of those things from your day to day.

00:17:28:01 - 00:17:51:16
Max Schneider
A lot of those stressors. Mindfulness allows you to be able to step back and to be able to observe it, and to realize that I am not my thoughts. I actually have the capacity to choose one thought over another. it allows you to be able to observe your feelings and understand and of what's going on from an emotional perspective, and also from a physical perspective.

00:17:51:17 - 00:18:08:20
Max Schneider
And pay attention to your body, because your body ultimately is the vehicle with which we experience the world, that your body only exists in the present moment. But so often our mind is what's interpreting our experience, and our mind is off with thoughts or thinking about the future. We're reflecting on the past or thinking about a project we're working on.

00:18:08:22 - 00:18:27:00
Max Schneider
But when we can slow down and we can actually pay attention to our body, which is always here, it's never gone with our thoughts in the future. It's never in the past. and we can tune into more of who we are and focus on that present moment. We can reduce stress. We can bring in the ability to focus better.

00:18:27:00 - 00:18:53:08
Max Schneider
We get better at handling interpersonal conflicts because we can separate or we can observe the emotion. We can observe the thoughts, and we can show up in a much more objective way. So these are the types of skills that when we're on these retreats, whether it's for individuals or for executive teams that were really focusing on how do we cultivate this ability to be mindful, to be aware so that we can show up and we can just have a higher quality of life?

00:18:53:08 - 00:19:01:22
Max Schneider
Because to your point, it is very difficult sometimes to let go of those things. It's that old adage of wherever you go, there you are.

00:19:01:24 - 00:19:24:14
Mike O'Neill
You know, as you're describing this, I was reflecting on, a family vacation we took where we would, fly into Liberia and Costa Rica, and you get off the plane and you immediately smell the this, this mantra, how to describe it. But it's very floral. for us, it was in the summer, so there was some temperature there.

00:19:24:14 - 00:19:52:13
Mike O'Neill
You could just feel it. the first sensation was, wow, I'm in a different place, but getting off a plane in a different place doesn't automatically put you mentally in a different place. And I'm really intrigued to kind of hear how you began that process. instilling that sense of mindfulness, particularly that most of your retreats are about a week long and that is preparing for reentry.

00:19:52:15 - 00:19:53:11
Max Schneider
Yes.

00:19:53:11 - 00:20:20:12
Mike O'Neill
How what has you what have you all found thus far? Working with your clients, be it individuals, be it executive teams or, or leadership teams in general? What are the things that you have found thus far that has proven most successful to assure that people leave this experience and they take with them things that they learned and experience back to their home and their business world.

00:20:20:14 - 00:20:37:08
Max Schneider
Yeah. there's a few things that we talk about on either the retreats or the the offsite story facility, because that is a really important piece. It's not just about having a great week or if for running an office had a great four days together. It's about, okay, how do what does this mean for us going forward? Am I going to do something differently as a result of it?

00:20:37:10 - 00:21:00:21
Max Schneider
So we talked about a few different things. One, is that you're the only person who experienced what you experienced on that retreat or that offsite, the magic that you're able to kind of create the exploration that you did within yourself. You're the only person who experienced it. The rest of the group was also there and can help support you with that experience.

00:21:01:02 - 00:21:19:21
Max Schneider
But when you go back home and you're back in your daily life, you're back at work, you're back, with your family. Nobody else for that period of time went through that experience. They just continued on linearly, linearly, as we all do most weeks, most days. But during that retreat of that offset, you had an exponential growth as a human being.

00:21:20:01 - 00:21:49:02
Max Schneider
So the first thing that we make sure that we communicate is have grace with others. When you come home, recognize that the world has continued on in linear fashion and you've changed. You've grown faster, so that reintegration is going to feel a little bit different. And we spend a lot of time really talking through what that means. the second thing that we talk about is that there's a tendency oftentimes to come back and just do so many things differently and want to integrate so much.

00:21:49:04 - 00:22:08:05
Max Schneider
But when we do that, there's still the reality of our day to day that we can't just take a square peg and fit it into a circle hole. But all we can do is choose one, maybe two things that we can start doing differently, and then we can build on it from there. So that's another major piece that we talk about.

00:22:08:09 - 00:22:29:05
Max Schneider
And then obviously we get into a lot of specifics because I think there's kind of small, medium and large ways that you can practice mindfulness and get a chance to continue integrating that. When you go back, things as small as like going on a fullness walk, just leave your phone at home, go outside, walk a mile, walk two miles during the middle of the day and get some fresh air.

00:22:29:05 - 00:22:47:12
Max Schneider
It's wild how liberating it is and you how much you feel like you're just getting away with something to be disconnected for 20 or 30 minutes. but that's a really helpful way to have no distractions, to just be in your external environment and observe whether that's, you know, the things that are going on around you, whether that's the sensations or feelings and thoughts that are coming up within you.

00:22:47:14 - 00:22:59:18
Max Schneider
there's a lot of small ways to that. You can continue doing this kind of work when we get on. So we spend a lot of time, getting really specific about how to integrate this and continue making differences when we get back.

00:22:59:20 - 00:23:22:10
Mike O'Neill
Oh, that's a great response. Thank you so much. You know, Max, you probably have already answered the obvious question. And that is where you got stuck in. What did it take to get unstuck? I think that's probably what we spent most of our time on thus far, but you may want to elaborate on that, or maybe share another example where if you got stuck, what did it take to get unstuck?

00:23:22:12 - 00:23:52:08
Max Schneider
Yeah, underneath all of this, where I was really stuck when I burnt out was in seeing myself the way the society taught me to see myself. I was so stuck on being on the partner track. I was so stuck on the being global services status, united, or the different types of perks and benefit that came along with the consulting career.

00:23:52:10 - 00:24:15:05
Max Schneider
I was so stuck in seeing myself as only as a leader within also the confines of the way I was being told to lead. and I when I started burning out, what I really noticed and why it was such a big, very, I think, traumatic experience for a lot of people is you when you burn out, you stop caring.

00:24:15:07 - 00:24:41:03
Max Schneider
You like this, apathy comes in and you just don't care. And it's such a very difficult thing to wrap your head around, because most people who do go through that are people who care intensely and who give everything. So there becomes this identity crisis that and it comes up where you're like, I've gone from this person who cares so much, and actually you cared so much that it burnt you out a lot of times.

00:24:41:05 - 00:25:00:16
Max Schneider
And you find yourself in a position where you don't recognize who you are. And for me, that getting put in that position, I think, was because I was seeing myself and I was stuck on the way that society had told me to be from high school to studying business, to all of the things that we are conditioned to believe.

00:25:00:16 - 00:25:38:05
Max Schneider
And maybe the morning after my last day of work, as April 9th and I of 2022, I sat down and practice yoga that next morning, and I just started crying like I just started bawling. And I have never, up to that point, really been a very emotional person. That's changed a lot these days. But it was just this massive release of so much weight, so much conditioning, so much learning of who I was supposed to be, that I had to start from the beginning and I had to unlearn so much.

00:25:38:05 - 00:26:00:24
Max Schneider
I had to rebuild, and I had to understand more about who I am as a person from the inside out, rather than from the outside in. So that's when I think about where I was stuck in this whole journey. That's where I was stuck. I was stuck in shaping myself in my own identity, around what our society and our culture tells us that we're supposed to be.

00:26:01:01 - 00:26:11:03
Max Schneider
And I got caught up in that. So this whole process for me has been very much getting unstuck of my own identity and figuring it out from the inside out.

00:26:11:05 - 00:26:25:21
Mike O'Neill
That's so well said. You know, Max, we've had a chance to talk about a pretty wide variety of things. But as you reflect on this conversation, what do you want to be the takeaways for our viewers and listeners?

00:26:25:23 - 00:26:56:21
Max Schneider
What I would encourage anybody listening to this is to slow down and pay attention, pay attention to yourself. Pay attention to the things that are going on inside of you. don't compartmentalize. Don't push things down. They're still there. Just because you're ignoring them doesn't mean they go away. But there's a lot of learning and the exploration of those feelings that we so often times just want to run away from.

00:26:56:23 - 00:27:22:18
Max Schneider
So when we slow down and we can listen to ourselves, we slow down. We pay attention to the things that are going on around us. that's where a lot of learning comes into play. It's the way that I have learned how to lead. Sentence on escapes is I know what the ethos of it is. I know what our mission is, but I let the business tell me what it needs to be.

00:27:22:18 - 00:27:45:16
Max Schneider
And it sounds a little weird. We're we're a little bit kind of kooky when you say it out loud. But the same way that we experience life through our bodies, our minds are interpreted. We experience being an entrepreneur through the business. So by stepping back and paying attention to the business, by seeing the business understanding of what the opportunities are, what may be some of the pain points are the ability to see around corners.

00:27:45:21 - 00:28:07:07
Max Schneider
We can step back and just observe. There's so much insight and that allows us to really respond instead of react to what's going on around us. So that's what I would encourage anybody non listening to this to try to do shop in like different ways in your life, but just slow down and pay attention.

00:28:07:09 - 00:28:32:06
Mike O'Neill
Max what you just said resonated with me a personally and that is when I started Bench Builders. I envisioned it to be doing a certain thing for clients and sure enough, that is what I did. But what I found by listening to the business, by listening to the clients, they began sharing things that they were seeking that I didn't realize was such a need.

00:28:32:08 - 00:28:56:23
Mike O'Neill
and as a result, the kind of the things I do now is pretty different than what I did when I started this. And I don't know if I would have said I was listening to the business. But what I would say is that, it, it gave it has more of an organic feel because you're meeting needs that you may not have anticipated that were actually out there.

00:28:57:00 - 00:29:19:07
Mike O'Neill
but you do have a gift, a max of explaining things in a way that's just very easy to to follow. I do want to, pose a question, if you don't mind, for our listeners. And that is, you ever wonder why people follow your lead? It's it's at up obligation. It's because they truly believe in your vision.

00:29:19:09 - 00:29:53:16
Mike O'Neill
With extensive experience in HR leadership and executive coaching, I've seen first hand the essence of leadership is clarity and confidence. It's all about practical solutions that deliver bottom line results. So if you're ready to lead with impact, let me invite you to visit Bench Desk builders.com. Let's unlock your leadership potential and make real strides towards your goals. So until we meet again, let me challenge you to focus on leading in a way that inspires others to follow.

00:29:53:16 - 00:30:03:13
Mike O'Neill
Not because they have to, but because they want to. Max, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us today.

00:30:03:15 - 00:30:06:08
Max Schneider
Thanks for having me, Mike. It's an absolute pleasure.

00:30:06:10 - 00:30:12:24
Mike O'Neill
I'm confident there will be folks who want to learn more. What's the best way for them to connect with you and reach out?

00:30:13:01 - 00:30:34:24
Max Schneider
Our website is Sand and Salt escapes.com, so you can go there to learn a lot more about the work that we do, whether that's the retreats or the off sites. or feel free to just drop me a line directly. My email is max at Sand and Salt Escape Scam. That's Max at Sand and Salt escapes.com.

00:30:35:01 - 00:30:51:05
Mike O'Neill
I love the name. I mean, just saying out loud I can feel my blood pressure dropping. a little bit. We will include that content information in the the show notes for folks. So again thank you Max.

00:30:51:07 - 00:30:51:16
Max Schneider
Thank you.

00:30:51:16 - 00:31:03:10
Mike O'Neill
Might also want to thank our subscriber for joining us. And I hope you have picked up on some quick wins from Max that will help you get unstuck and on target.

00:31:05:02 - 00:31:09:02
Mike O'Neill
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Get Unstuck and on Target.

00:31:09:04 - 00:31:29:17
Mike O'Neill
I hope you gain insights to help you lead with competence and drive your organization forward. Remember it, Bench builders. We're committed to your success, your leadership excellence, and your strategic growth. If you've enjoyed our conversation today, please leave a review rate and subscribe to keep up with our latest episode.

00:31:30:01 - 00:31:34:01
Mike O'Neill
This show really grows when listeners like you share it with others.

00:31:34:00 - 00:31:37:13
Mike O'Neill
Who do you know? Who needs to hear what we talked about today?

00:31:37:22 - 00:31:45:02
Mike O'Neill
Until next time, I encourage you to stay. Focus on the target and continue to break new ground on your leadership path.