Ep165 Michelle Nedelec - From Fighter Pilots to CEOs: The Real Secret to Thriving in Chaos

00:00:00:03 - 00:00:38:20
Mike O'Neill
Joining me is Michelle Metallic. Michelle is an author, a podcaster and the founder of Awareness Strategies. That's a digital marketing firm, especially as is an affiliate, marketing and business automation. Michelle has run her own series of companies since 1995 and since 2003, she's been helping sales reps, entrepreneurs and executives to continually double their profits in revenues. Based on my conversations with her, I can assure you she not only has what it takes to help her clients build multi-million dollar businesses.

00:00:39:00 - 00:00:44:01
Mike O'Neill
She's done it time and time again. Welcome, Michelle.

00:00:44:03 - 00:00:46:24
Michelle Nedelec
thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

00:00:47:01 - 00:00:59:04
Mike O'Neill
You know, Michelle, I introduced you as a author and a podcaster. What I failed to mention is that you're not just a run of the mill podcaster. You actually, I think you host more than one podcast, do you not?

00:00:59:06 - 00:01:07:11
Michelle Nedelec
Yes, I do. I actually run five of them. my. Yes. I am a special kind of crazy, I like to say.

00:01:07:13 - 00:01:19:17
Mike O'Neill
Well, let's start with there. What is it about running five podcasts that helps you get better at what you do and helps your clients? How does that tie together?

00:01:19:19 - 00:01:47:20
Michelle Nedelec
Well, what we found in the last few years in particular is that podcasts allow for businesses to be able to educate their clients, especially if they have a long sales cycle, one that requires some education to be able to get in front of their audience for oftentimes, you know, half an hour at a time, some cases an hour and a half at a time when they're being able to speak about issues that affect their ideal clientele.

00:01:47:22 - 00:02:17:06
Michelle Nedelec
And what we're looking at is helping businesses to actually streamline their marketing efforts, because a lot of especially kind of Gen-X and baby boomers, a real issue with how do I do social media, how much, you know, be vulnerable? What does that really mean? Do I really want enough people? And and they're noticing that the owner of the business or the voice of the company should really be out in the public and give the company a personality.

00:02:17:06 - 00:02:54:00
Michelle Nedelec
And how do they do that without being too vulnerable, exposing too much information and not wasting a ton of time commenting on pictures? It's like, okay, we've done mess and you know, we put them out. It didn't work. It's because the strategy wasn't there. On top of the tactic. They're putting tactics in front of strategy. And when you really understand how your people buy now, then you realize that podcasting is the way to streamline your marketing efforts to be able to maximize all of your people's output and minimize the amount of effort that you're putting into it.

00:02:54:02 - 00:03:00:18
Mike O'Neill
You know, you mentioned how people buy. Now, how has that changed in the time you've been doing this?

00:03:00:20 - 00:03:20:15
Michelle Nedelec
Drastically. So those are you listening. If you're familiar with the Once upon a times of you either sound watch commercials and when Mood bell looks delicious, I think I want that. But then you have to get up and go and either walk half an hour, go get something, or you get in your car, you leave, you come back.

00:03:20:17 - 00:03:44:14
Michelle Nedelec
It was it's kind of a ridiculous way of buying things, but there was a lot of advertising through television was the biggest kind of the nirvana of marketing, if you will. Magazines were on top of it, and that's how you got to educate your clients was through magazines, especially if they were on high end clientele was usually while they were on flights to places.

00:03:44:16 - 00:04:09:08
Michelle Nedelec
Now, if you think about it, if you went buy a car right now, you wouldn't go watch TV and book a car, but you wouldn't go and look at magazines. You'd go directly to the Google and and you'd start searching on the aspects of a vehicle that you wanted. If you didn't have that car in mind. And even if you did have a car in mind, if the features that you're looking for, if you don't go straight in and you say, Hey, I want a BMW.

00:04:09:10 - 00:04:31:07
Michelle Nedelec
Say you wanted a sports car that allowed you to, you know, take kids to the sporting events and looked classy. So you type that in, right? You're getting you're looking at, okay, maybe BMW comes up, but then there's these other vehicles that also have those features that you're looking for. And then you start to do cross promotions, analysis, comparisons.

00:04:31:09 - 00:04:56:04
Michelle Nedelec
Some people might be looking at comparisons of the type of tires and and what they look like others might be doing. You know, what are the engine sizes and what are, you know, resale values, things like that. But we're doing a ton of research on whatever aspects of the thing that we want, both long before we go into, you know, calling somebody or suddenly booking an appointment saying, hey, I was thinking about a car, what are your cars do?

00:04:56:04 - 00:05:15:04
Michelle Nedelec
And can I take my kid to sporting events? Or they're going to say, yes. Right. So we don't do that anymore. And it doesn't matter what we're buying, we're not wasting our time talking to people about things that we're not informed of. We are making sales decisions and we're reinforcing those conversations saying, Hey, I saw this. Is this true?

00:05:15:06 - 00:05:24:16
Michelle Nedelec
Is this really what I'm going to get? And then the conversations are much more implicit while we're talking to salespeople than they have ever been.

00:05:24:18 - 00:05:44:00
Mike O'Neill
Now, you're making a good point as I step back and look, why would I start a podcast? And I started the podcast on the front end of the pandemic, and that is we were all scrambling. What are we going to do? And therefore, I was just trying to assemble people who are well in the know to share information.

00:05:44:02 - 00:06:07:24
Mike O'Neill
I found that I learned greatly from my podcast guest. I've already had this conversation with you prior. I learned a lot. Before we even get the record button. So I get a lot out of hosting a podcast. But here's what I'm learning. Clients say, You know what, Mike, before I reached out to you, I actually watched a couple of your podcast and I said, Well, tell me more about that.

00:06:08:00 - 00:06:24:06
Mike O'Neill
You said, Well, I wanted to kind of see how how you work, how you operate. And as I reflect on that, what I realized is what you see is what you get with me. The way you and I are talking is not too dissimilar to what you and I would be doing if we were in a coaching session.

00:06:24:08 - 00:06:46:17
Mike O'Neill
I'm trying to learn about you, the challenges you have, and explore in what ways I perhaps could be helpful. But usually the answers reside within the client. Now that justifies me Continue doing the podcast. That is, I'm learning from my clients and I'm finding that potential clients get to learn from me over time because they learn about me.

00:06:46:22 - 00:06:57:24
Mike O'Neill
Not so much by what I say, but the questions I ask. So I just added pressure. I'm got to ask you really good, insightful questions to justify what I just said there.

00:06:58:00 - 00:07:24:14
Michelle Nedelec
BIPs Exactly. But it also it also can be effortless in that we aren't just having a conversation and people are getting to know you. How do you listen? How do you respond to things? Where do you find insight? And it can be in the obvious, which is great because you're going, okay, you noticed that I didn't good on you or Wow, I never would have got that out of that conversation.

00:07:24:14 - 00:07:48:16
Michelle Nedelec
That's fantastic. And whether your prospective clients are the guests that are talking to you and they're going, Wow, like, this is a great conversation. I want to pursue it. I want to how do I keep you in my life? Or if it's the observers that are listening to the podcast after it's been published, getting an idea of who you are and how you do business in the types of conversations you have, the types of guests that you're bringing on.

00:07:48:18 - 00:07:56:01
Michelle Nedelec
All of those things say a lot about you, who your network is, speaks volume.

00:07:56:03 - 00:08:15:22
Mike O'Neill
You know my show. I'm looking at your backdrop for those who are listening. You don't have the benefit of what's over your shoulder. But let me just ask this question for those who are watching on YouTube. You have in one corner streamlined your marketing through podcasts and then over the other shoulder you have a QR code of some sort, which is brilliant.

00:08:15:22 - 00:08:23:20
Mike O'Neill
I had not seen that before. What is that intended? Do people literally pick up their phone and shoot the QR code? And if they do, what do they get?

00:08:23:22 - 00:08:47:15
Michelle Nedelec
They'll go to the registration registration page for streamlined. You're marketing through podcasts, so it kind of looks like a clock. Some people notice it and some people don't, or a piece of artwork sitting just happens to be a QR code and just happens to go to the the events that we're promoting to be able to, if you're interested, kind of find out more about me.

00:08:47:17 - 00:09:09:17
Mike O'Neill
Know I asked you earlier about how much things have changed. You said they've changed dramatically, but you also mentioned that it depends on what group you're talking about. Let's go there for a moment, if you don't mind. And that is, I know you work with companies at all stages, but when you're working with a company, maybe you're working with the founder or the owner of the company.

00:09:09:19 - 00:09:35:05
Mike O'Neill
And in keeping with the theme of this podcast, getting stuck, one of things you and I talked about is you introduce something that I guess I didn't think about and that is what about those people who have been successful, so successful that they garners interest, they actually sell their business, then what would that be an example of where maybe your clients got stuck?

00:09:35:07 - 00:09:58:08
Michelle Nedelec
absolutely. And I think it's fast. Nailing the whole concept of getting stuck is fascinating to me because because we're human, we get stuck. It's just not going to not happen. You can talk to anybody at any stage of life. And and it is a recurring theme. And the question becomes, you know, why am I here? And what benefit is is it to me?

00:09:58:08 - 00:10:33:24
Michelle Nedelec
How do I get out? And I think the important part is what what is the benefit to me? Because if you don't ask that question in between, why am I here and how do I get out? You fall into a victim role. And I think it's really important to understand that being stuck is not a victim role. Being stuck is a a distinction of intelligence in my mind is that you're smart enough to know that what you're doing right now isn't getting you where you want to go and where you are isn't where you necessarily want to be, which is great because there's a lot of people on the planet that aren't where they want

00:10:33:24 - 00:10:54:01
Michelle Nedelec
to be and they don't notice. And they don't care. So if you're at the point where you notice that you're stuck and you're not where you want to be, then the question is what benefit is it to be right here, right now to me? So if somebody goes and sells their business and it could be for millions of dollars, I have seen people they sell it for millions of dollars.

00:10:54:03 - 00:11:15:24
Michelle Nedelec
And sometimes the more they've sold their business for, the more frustrated and more upset they are with life, they lose meaning, they lose purpose, they lose their drive. They lose their their intentionality and their individuality. And it's sad to see if they're not asking themselves what's benefit being here right now. So what's a benefit to having sold my business?

00:11:15:24 - 00:11:40:17
Michelle Nedelec
One, I got a track of money, get some capital gain. Great. Two yet could be assigned me a proof that a proof of concept, that thing that I went after and everybody said, you're crazy. That'll never work. It worked. Marketing Technicolor out. That was awesome. Okay, great. And the fear can then become, Well, yeah, but I don't know if that was just a fluke.

00:11:40:17 - 00:12:01:21
Michelle Nedelec
I don't know if I came up with that. I don't know if it was just good timing. The world's changed. Now, am I going to get any more good ideas? You know, what's what are the fears behind that? But what are the benefits? Those fears. So if the fear is I don't know if I'm going to get any other new ideas to be able to build another business for this, what's the benefit of that?

00:12:01:23 - 00:12:23:18
Michelle Nedelec
Well, one, I'm forced to sit and bankroll all of my ideas and go, okay, can I come up with good ideas? Is this a one off? Have I never had another good idea in my life? Well, probably not. Not that you haven't had another good idea, but it's probably not true that you've never had way too many negatives in that sense, but have found them all.

00:12:23:18 - 00:12:50:05
Michelle Nedelec
It was an odd number. So it comes out to you have good ideas and how do you capitalize on those ideas? So it might be, Well, I actually come up with a lot of great ideas that I can't necessarily implement, but I now have the network and then Rolodex, if you will, to be able to find people who have resources, but they don't necessarily have good ideas.

00:12:50:07 - 00:13:15:05
Michelle Nedelec
And then I can capitalize on that aspect of it. So it's it's this personal journey that we have to go through when we're stuck that I think, is the fundamental importance and the opportunity that if we overlook it, we miss and if we absorb it and delve into it, it can become the nirvana of spaces to be.

00:13:15:07 - 00:13:28:19
Mike O'Neill
Yeah, our listeners range from individual contributors to those who are managing others, to those who are managing large teams, to those who owned companies, to those who manage divisions and beyond.

00:13:28:19 - 00:13:51:15
Mike O'Neill
for our conversation. I kind of want to stick to this business owner who has sold, by all accounts, wow, He or she has really hit it. They sold out, they hit it big and they're all around looking around. Let's kind of get into the mind of a key individual in an organization. It might be the founder, it might be the leader.

00:13:51:17 - 00:14:15:11
Mike O'Neill
It's a key executive. As you're working with these individuals, what is it that you've learned in your years of working with them that do they think differently? And if so, how do you modify what you do with these people who are at that kind of level? What have you found that might surprise some viewers or listeners?

00:14:15:13 - 00:14:40:17
Michelle Nedelec
Well, one, there is no real stereotype for it there. Everybody has their own kind of space that they're in. And are there trends? Absolutely. So typically, people that are running, companies that have, let's say, divisions and they have a C-suite in there, they tend to have the ability to be able to see a big picture when nobody else can.

00:14:40:19 - 00:15:13:07
Michelle Nedelec
But sometimes where they still get stuck is, okay, this has been going great and all of a sudden something happens that has never happened before. The stock market crashes, the market turns, the whatever the the rules and regulations in that industry change something that is cataclysmic to the way that they do business. That is the thing that they look like outside sources didn't usually present that big of an issue to them until this, and now they have to kind of restructure.

00:15:13:07 - 00:15:46:08
Michelle Nedelec
How do I think about overcoming my external situations through my internal fortitude and and being able to see opportunity and calamity when when people can kind of hone in on those skill sets, then they have the ability to be able to get themselves unstuck. But they're it's not always as easily done as it is said. So even though they put that little Venn diagram together, they brought themselves like a little Google person right in the middle of that of that drawing.

00:15:46:08 - 00:16:20:04
Michelle Nedelec
And they go, okay, so what are the opportunities? And sometimes they just they can't see the forest for the trees, right? So they're they're looking at one they're their executive team and going, okay, so has anybody ever been in a situation like this or no? Okay, great. That doesn't help us. Is anybody ever you know, anybody that have some resources that we might be able to go through and it's they understand that they have a team of people that have different skill sets that are that are playing in the game.

00:16:20:04 - 00:16:40:12
Michelle Nedelec
Right. Your CIO has a very definite different skill set than a CFO. One is looking at how do we minimize our our problems. The other one is looking out what opportunities are out there that we can that we can. Pinnell Your CMO is going how do we be creative about this situation and let all of our past. Yeah, ignore that.

00:16:40:12 - 00:17:05:01
Michelle Nedelec
And kind of how do we step into the future? The job of the CEO is then to take this information and be able to see a vision. And the problem is if they can't, if they're stuck in that and they can't see forth is how do we start breaking through this? So sometimes we'll get into team meetings and just say, okay, no bad idea, no ideas, bad idea.

00:17:05:01 - 00:17:42:03
Michelle Nedelec
If you said, Hey, we could hire squirrels to take over the company right now, let's consider that a good idea and, you know, move from there. And then what? What ideas is that provoke them? What ideas does that bring up? And then eventually kind of ten steps in or 100 steps in comes the good ideas. So it's I think the biggest difference with that level of individual is, one, their willingness to look at this and go, okay, there's got to be a way through this over and across that they kind of remind me a lot of pilots that were P.O.W.s, right?

00:17:42:03 - 00:18:08:13
Michelle Nedelec
You can have a lot of people in a war that are P.O.W. prisoners of war, and they put them into the cattle brigades. They're in their little fenced areas. Most people will behave and try not to get shot, except for pilots. The pilots are special kind of crazy because they they are so much or they had been so much in the habit of resolving problems that other people saw as fatal.

00:18:08:18 - 00:18:41:01
Michelle Nedelec
Right. Your plane is going down. You are facing imminent death and their job is to stay calm, relax, breathe and see a way out of it. In those 35 seconds that they have left. And typically, entrepreneurs that have hired have built a company from nothing, hired a whole team of people. They can see things they can allow themselves to breathe even when their body is trying to shut down, going, this is closed, make it stop.

00:18:41:03 - 00:19:11:13
Michelle Nedelec
And believe it or not, when people sell their businesses, it almost has the same stress load attached to it because they've got this influx of cash. But now one, everybody wants it. Not all the ideas are good ideas. And who am I to to take on this whole new role? So I give you 27,000 ideas in there, but it's being able to understand that these people tend to one look internal to solve their problems.

00:19:11:13 - 00:19:29:05
Michelle Nedelec
They have a willingness to solve their problems. They know they have resources that they can count on and and utilize them in a different sort of way. And it's just being able to kind of think in the eyes of inevitable deaths to realize it's not really inevitable death. It just feels like it.

00:19:29:07 - 00:20:06:17
Mike O'Neill
You know, Michel, when you said that something that popped in my head is something I heard not long ago, and I may not have this right, but it goes something like this. They were compared and the stress levels in a military setting, in a wartime setting of infantry versus fighter pilots. And what I understand is the study showed that there was you look at the the facts, the values of World War Two, for example, I think the fatality rate was about 50% for fighter pilots or higher.

00:20:06:17 - 00:20:07:02
Michelle Nedelec
Yeah.

00:20:07:04 - 00:20:35:13
Mike O'Neill
Yeah. Or higher, much less for those, you know, in an infantry role. But when they measured stress level on a fighter pilot, do they had a 5050 chance of not surviving, if you would typically had a much lower stress level than someone who was an infantry? Yeah. They basically attribute that to at least the fighter pilots felt that they were in some degree of control.

00:20:35:15 - 00:21:02:19
Michelle Nedelec
Well, and the irony to me is that they are they are not in any less control than anybody else beneath their circumstance. They just think they are. So it's a few things. One is they have this I don't know if necessarily it's the training. It can be the training for sure. Certainly it is with today's modern pilots. They have to have breathing exercises.

00:21:02:21 - 00:21:39:10
Michelle Nedelec
So you cannot get into a fighter jet without having breathing exercises. So you just pass out like it's impossible to do nowadays. And that breathing not only allows your heart to function, which is why they're doing it, They're they're training their hearts to slow down their lungs, to increase capacity, but it also affects their brain, which then allows their frontal cortex to be able to operate in their executive functions of the brain, which is where your creativity and idea of problem solving comes from.

00:21:39:12 - 00:22:13:08
Michelle Nedelec
So it allows them to them think when other people aren't thinking. So if somebody's stressed out and they're not forcing themselves to breathe, which somebody running across a field, they're going to force themselves to breathe to the extent that they can continue running. But if they were a fighter pilot, they would actually be focused on their breathing and and stretching their lungs and their diaphragms in the moment while they're breathing, knowing that that is the thing that's going to keep them alive until they hit that next section of trees or whatever it is.

00:22:13:10 - 00:22:41:23
Michelle Nedelec
The other thing is fighter pilots by nature tend to see danger as a source of excitement. And there really is no fundamental difference between the two danger or excitement. We find excitement in danger. Humans are a special kind of crazy in that other animals as animal kingdom will scary each other and think it's funny. Humans will scare themselves in order to think it's funny.

00:22:42:00 - 00:23:07:00
Michelle Nedelec
So we come up with these crazy things like fighter jets and and roller coasters and business and, you know, all these crazy things that create adrenaline rush for ourselves to create that anticipation, that create that danger and the risk. And some of us seek it out, which you can learn how to see things that are scary or frightening or dangerous or great fear in you.

00:23:07:05 - 00:23:17:00
Michelle Nedelec
And to see that as excitement. Some of us just either naturally do it or we've been so conditioned in childhood that it's just the thing that we go after.

00:23:17:02 - 00:23:38:07
Mike O'Neill
You know, this conversation was obviously unscripted, but in terms of where we went with it, what I what I am taking thus far as we're kind of going down the path of trying to understand things from the perspective of the person at the top. It may be people listening who are at the top, or it may be that people are listening and they have aspirations at being at the top.

00:23:38:09 - 00:24:05:00
Mike O'Neill
But how they look at and how they deal with matters, I can vary. And I think you you raise some really interesting comparisons and you brought up something that so often we tend to overlook when people are wildly successful in financial terms, they might end up being miserable. And I'm really kind of intrigued as we start to kind of wind up our time together.

00:24:05:00 - 00:24:23:17
Mike O'Neill
Michel, help me just kind of put this conversation in some form of perspective. We've opted to talk more about the perspective of the person at the top, but how would you begin to kind of wrap up this conversation in a way that would be almost describe as takeaways?

00:24:23:19 - 00:24:53:22
Michelle Nedelec
Well, I think the biggest thing to understand that if somebody is in a position of authority, they've built their business up and it is it can be easy to see. Yes, I was successful in this, but at the expense of what I've lost my family, I've lost my kids, I've lost this. And they start to go through this grocery list of things that they've so-called lost in in the pursuit of those goals, dreams and aspirations.

00:24:53:24 - 00:25:19:01
Michelle Nedelec
And it can be a dangerous position to be in, but it can also be an extremely powerful position to be in. So if you're finding yourself well, as you're listening to this going, yes, I have this success, but at what expense? To be able to look at one, the the skills and experiences that you've learned outside of just the result thing.

00:25:19:01 - 00:25:38:10
Michelle Nedelec
So regardless of how much money you sold the company for, regardless of how much time it took, regardless of those, what skills did you get? What experiences did you get that you wouldn't have got otherwise? And how can you use that to then move forward and create both the experiences and the lifestyle that you want to create from here on in?

00:25:38:12 - 00:25:59:03
Michelle Nedelec
Because entrepreneurs have this overwhelming tendency to drop everything that's happened in the past and go, okay, now I'm starting from scratch again and it's not true. Everything that we have created up into this point has got you to where you are, and it will continue to be a foundation to help you to move forward. If you allow it to be.

00:25:59:03 - 00:26:20:16
Michelle Nedelec
I mean, it will anyway. If you can see it, then it becomes a much more powerful position. You're in a much more powerful position than you may think you are. And if you need help to be able to discover that, absolutely, come talk to Mike and more myself and figure that out because it's a dangerous position to think that you have no resources when you are.

00:26:20:18 - 00:26:27:17
Mike O'Neill
Loaded with them. Michel, If folks want to come to you, what's the best way for them to reach out to you?

00:26:27:19 - 00:26:49:15
Michelle Nedelec
Well, those of you that happened to be on YouTube can click on the QR code registration for the events. I am on all social media, so if you figure out how to spell my name, Michel Nedlac, I am the only one that speaks English out of the five of us on the planet right now. And so an awareness strategies uncommon is always a good one.

00:26:49:15 - 00:27:03:06
Michelle Nedelec
So, Michel, in that election you'll find a whole array which is very confusing of who I am and all the things I bring to the table and awareness strategies puts it into a nice little bone sense. This is what you need next.

00:27:03:08 - 00:27:26:08
Mike O'Neill
We're going to include that obviously in the show notes. I anticipated a fun conversation and informative. Boy, you get both. This has been I've learned a great deal from you. For those who are not looking, Michele has a wonderful smile, rose colored glasses, and you are just your kind to share your time with. With me and with us today.

00:27:26:08 - 00:27:27:15
Mike O'Neill
Thank you so much.

00:27:27:17 - 00:27:30:08
Michelle Nedelec
Thank you for having me. I had a great time.

00:27:30:10 - 00:27:56:23
Mike O'Neill
Now I've got a question for our listeners. Are people following you because they have to or because they want to? You know, as a leadership coach, I work with executives who have a track record of success behind them, but they're now they're now feeling stuck. They're frustrated because they're finding it with each level of success that follows. The bar is set even higher and they get discouraged because what worked in the past is no longer working.

00:27:57:00 - 00:28:18:22
Mike O'Neill
So my clients, despite all these successes in the past, are lacking the clarity and the competence to make decisions needed to get to that next level. So if Feeling Stuck describes you or someone you know, let's talk go to bench dash builders AECOM and this gets you a call. So I want to thank you again for joining us.

00:28:18:22 - 00:28:25:22
Mike O'Neill
And I hope you have picked up on some quick wins for Michelle. They'll help you get unstuck and on target.