Ep186 Robert Joseph PhD - AI Can Transform Your Business, But Only If You Avoid This Critical Mistake

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Robert Joseph PhD
with generative AI,

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Robert Joseph PhD
it can give you

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Robert Joseph PhD
a

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Robert Joseph PhD
different insight.

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Robert Joseph PhD
Now, ultimately,

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Robert Joseph PhD
you're the one that needs to decide if that insight is valuable or not and how to take that insight and make it something that is of value to you.

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Mike O'Neill
welcome to Get Unstuck and On Target, the weekly podcast that offers senior leaders insights and strategies to not only lead with competence and vision,

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Mike O'Neill
but also to achieve groundbreaking results.

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Mike O'Neill
I'm your host, Mick O'Neill. I coach top level executives on the power of ethical leadership to forge teams to be as united as they are effective

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Mike O'Neill
in each episode.

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Mike O'Neill
Join me for insightful conversations with leaders just like you, providing practical advice to help you get unstuck and propel you and your company forward.

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Mike O'Neill
Let's get started.

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Mike O'Neill
Joining me is Doctor Robert Joseph. He is the co-founder and president of Team MindShift, a technology and talent development company, on a mission to empower and increase the proficiency of talent in digital data, technology and job readiness. With a B.S. in M.S. in Electrical Engineering from MIT and an MSC and PhD in Computer Science from Carnegie Mellon. He has deep technical roots.

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Mike O'Neill
He's built hundreds of mobile, web and desktop ads. He even has a patent for an internet DJ system. However, his proudest accomplishment is to be the father of two young adult men. I've invited Doctor Joseph on because he could speak on a wide variety of topics. But the thing that we spent most of our time talking about is A.I. what is it and why should leaders really understand it, and in what ways, once they understand it, can they drive value out of a I.

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Mike O'Neill
Welcome, Robert.

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Robert Joseph PhD
Thank you. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here, Mike.

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Mike O'Neill
You know, I don't typically read the bio credentials, but I have to admit, those are impressive academic credentials. And I know that you use those credentials because I didn't mention this, but you also, I teach at the collegiate level. I'm not sure I know what you don't do. Well.

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Robert Joseph PhD
oh. Thank you. you know, one of the things that the that I like doing is following my passion and figuring out how to follow my passion with what I'm trying to do is something that that drives me. And I love teaching. And so I got involved actually on the advisory board in Georgia State University for computer science department, and in that capacity, slot opened up for an instructor to come and teach a web programing.

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Robert Joseph PhD
And I was like, oh, this is fantastic. I'll do that. And it it's really interesting how synergies work together. because when I started doing that with the web programing class, it was during the pandemic. And so we were virtual. And that's when I started using the flipped classroom that we are using to this day for our own company.

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Robert Joseph PhD
And so we got three years of doing online classes where that's where the education is, and then using zoom meetings to bring in guest speakers to come and tell the students about what is it like to be in a web development arena or a web development company? What do recruiters look for when they're recruiting people? So we like to do our training so that it's a full 360 degree

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Robert Joseph PhD
understanding of what it takes to use the skill, not just to acquire the skill.

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Mike O'Neill
I have a number of professor friends, so I hope they don't take offense. But what I would say if, when I have a conversation with them in a social setting, I know that at times my eyes tend to gloss over. However, that's where you and I met.

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Mike O'Neill
We met in a social setting. We struck up a conversation. The more we talked, the more I enjoyed talking with you. And I said, goodness gracious, you'd be a great podcast guest. And here we are. You're on the podcast. Can we go back to academia for a moment? One thing I thought that when I was speaking to you, I said, you know, Doctor Joseph is not a typical person.

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Mike O'Neill
He's able to explain things even though he has advanced training that I can even understand. How have you used that gift in your role as co-founder of MindShift?

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Robert Joseph PhD
first off, can I just get you as a hype man to just follow me? Well.

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Mike O'Neill
Hello.

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Robert Joseph PhD
Thank you very much. You're you're you're very kind. Well, one of the things that I find is that people focus on how do I do something, and they get into the weeds and they don't focus on why am I doing that? Or how does it work in general. And so what actually we developed is of course called enhanced learning, in which we take people through the process of emotion and self-talk, learning to learn how to learn, and then sort of how to generalize that and a lot of things that people find complicated if you abstract it up conceptually, it's pretty simple.

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Robert Joseph PhD
And then once people understand the concept, then filling in how to do it is a lot easier because they have something to to, you know, put their hat on it. They have something to say. Oh, okay. I see why these steps need to be done, because this is the hard thing that I'm trying to accomplish. And you know, that's been developed from since I was a kid, my mom was a teacher, and she would explain things to me several different ways.

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Robert Joseph PhD
And when I asked her a question or one something, she would say, okay, how do you say that? In different ways. So she actually grew me to think about how to explain things so that people can understand it. And I, you know, you know, my parents were awesome.

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Mike O'Neill
When you said you have a gift, to explain things, and I introduced AI into the mix, I did so a large part because we see it everywhere. But what I was particularly interested in is for us to have a conversation about our listeners. They are leaders, leaders want to embrace the latest technology. And sometimes embracing that technology might not in itself be in the best interest of the business.

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Mike O'Neill
It may not necessarily, drive value. Give us a sense of kind of what you mean by that, please.

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Robert Joseph PhD
Sure. And let me give you a little bit of background where I'm coming from because, we've talked about the academic experience that I have. I also have been in industry. So I understand some of the the pressures that leaders have, as well as some of the, you know, jumping on the, the latest hype because you're hearing all these savings that the hype can or not, the hype, all these savings that the technology can can lend you.

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Robert Joseph PhD
before Team MindShift, I was a director and a senior data scientist or senior data scientist and limited director at Stanley Black and Decker, doing industry forward in manufacturing. They also did some supply chain. So I actually got to live and breathe this. And I saw many projects that failed, not because of the technology but because of the the use of the technology not being tied to driving value.

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Robert Joseph PhD
What I mean by that is for example, I saw the company have the data scientists go down to the plant and say, oh, what I want you to do is, is we have the defects that are happening. And I want you to tell me when the machine is having these defects. the data science says, great, we can do that.

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Robert Joseph PhD
And so the data scientist would take all the data and say, oh, when the machine is in this configuration, the defects are being made. And so the people at the manufacturing place said, that's great. Now I need to get that down to the floor where the person is working machine and the data slide to say, okay, well, you guys do that.

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Robert Joseph PhD
We, we solve the problem that you asked. And if they had redone the problem a rephrase the problem and say, I want to let the machine run the machine operator know when a part is defect it so that they can take corrective actions. Then they would have looked at how to deliver it to the machine operator in a way that allowed the machine operator to take action, not just solve the problem of finding the defect.

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Robert Joseph PhD
And that's just one example of many projects that worked value driven. But they were let's use the latest technology because everybody's saying that it will do X, Y and z.

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Mike O'Neill
Our listeners come from many different industries. So my question will be a little bit generic. But when you mention manufacturing, that is a background I'm very familiar with. let's go back to AI for a moment. it is, it it's caught the attention of everybody and leaders in particular need to feel like they're leading in, and that respects.

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Mike O'Neill
How would you advise leaders to look at AI?

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Robert Joseph PhD
Yeah. So to to pop this up a little bit in terms of, a generic understanding. I would say figure out what are that figure out, you know, what values you're trying to drive. You've got I think you've got a whole list of things that either your boss or your stockholders or things like that, or you said, this is what I'm trying to accomplish.

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Robert Joseph PhD
And then in the context of that, see where AI fits in. And when we talk about AI nowadays, we're really talking about generative AI a lot of times. And generative AI is only one small segment of AI, and AI is only one small segment of all the technology out there that you have to take advantage of. And so when you start to talk about driving value, then for instance, I use as a, a simple example for marketing.

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Robert Joseph PhD
I can use generative AI to create articles that are brilliant, that people will read all the time, and I could post them on LinkedIn. I can get a lot of readership from them, and that will allow me to create articles that people like. but if my goal is to create articles to drive people to buy or to drive people to make a subscription, then that focus changes.

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Robert Joseph PhD
How will I do the articles? Because I do want people to be engaged in the articles, but I want those articles to also lead to an action. And when I make that shift to say I want to drive value by having this action take place, then I can say, okay, now generative AI, create an article for me. with these parameters that help drive people to do this action and that simple transformation of how to think about it is something that can transform your success rate for using AI.

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Robert Joseph PhD
And so with that, just to continue your question, the way to think about it is, is to think about, okay, what value do I try? Am I trying to drive? And then what can generative AI do. And then can that thing that generative AI do drive that value. And you've seen generative AI produce new articles, new writing, new emails and things like that.

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Robert Joseph PhD
You've also, can see generative AI being used as a thought leader. I mean, a thought partner, where you either saying, what about, you know, I'm trying to do this. Give me some ideas of of. The the the domain space that that I'm in and what are some ways in which I could either solve this problem or think about this.

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Robert Joseph PhD
And, for me, I've used that time and time again and it's come up with things that. Oh yeah, I've thought about that. But it's also come up with things like, oh, I didn't think about that. That's really good.

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Robert Joseph PhD
So let me pause here because.

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Mike O'Neill
Well I followed you very clearly and let me see if I could say it back to you. And that is the first example you gave is one that, solopreneurs can, can identify with. Because what they're trying to do is be seen out there that they're competing against much bigger people. And therefore there's a tendency to say, I want to write something that people are going to like, and it becomes a little bit of a vanity thing.

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Mike O'Neill
How many likes and comments can I get? And on one hand you would say, well, that accomplishes something. But what you've challenge us to be thinking is but what do you really want to accomplish? You want that drive behavior that results in business. What do you have to do to generate that? Do you want them to subscribe to the newsletter, or do you want them to reach out and schedule a phone call?

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Mike O'Neill
But if you start with what you're developing and put out there with that in mind, then I think what I understand you to be saying is that you're kind of baking in that value up front.

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Robert Joseph PhD
Yes. Okay, good.

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Mike O'Neill
I want to ask you go a little bit deeper. And that is we've got listeners who are managing SAS organizations. They are managing, more sophisticated type organizations that are changing dramatically. How do you advise those who are in key leadership roles, who are surrounded by a lot of smart people who are familiar with all of the latest technology.

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Mike O'Neill
How do you advise leaders to not get so. Google I if I could use that term over all the possibilities, particularly from I.

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Robert Joseph PhD
You know, it's interesting because, I would advise them to keep their people grounded. And so to really when people bring something and say and, you know, I'm an engineer, data, you know, data scientist, technologist. And so I really like technology. And it's so funny. I'll break to my business part. I said, look, this is something we could do.

00:16:01:01 - 00:16:27:00
Robert Joseph PhD
It it'll say to me, okay, what value does that bring up? If you start the question then people bring things to you about technology with, okay, how are you going to use this to drive value? It starts them transitioning into thinking, okay, I'm developing this, but I need to think further. And then this is the neatest thing since sliced bread.

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Robert Joseph PhD
But I need to think further. And what will this do for my company. And so that's one. The other is be very clear on the values that you want your people to to break. I mean, this is kind of leadership. What a one. but sometimes people get lost in that. You know, okay, I'm reading Gartner reports, I'm reading The New York Times, are reading the Wall Street Journal, and they're saying generative AI could save my company 30%, of work.

00:17:00:10 - 00:17:39:06
Robert Joseph PhD
Or I could do X, Y, and Z, and it can do those things. But it's not the use of the technology that allows that. It's the use of the technology to help with the things that you need to do already. So how do you drive value? Like if you could, if you can do this thing that drives value 30% faster, then do this thing that drives value and use AI or technology to increase the speed of it, or the to increase the effectiveness of it.

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Mike O'Neill
You know, Robert, when you were describing how AI is oftentimes used, what was kind of in my mind is you present to it in the form of prompts. This is what we're doing, and what you might be asking for would result in kind of incremental improvements. But you said something that caught my eye, and that is a lot of people I work with as a coach.

00:18:03:12 - 00:18:10:09
Mike O'Neill
Is it their very heads down, focused on very specific KPIs?

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Robert Joseph PhD
Yes.

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Mike O'Neill
And there's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes when an organization, when they get so myopic, it's only looking at one thing, it might be overlooking others. I looked and was listening to you talk about how you could use AI to think, or had that help you think, and perhaps operate out of the box. Yeah. And I think you said you had examples where it made suggestions that you kind of go, oh, I might not have thought of that.

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Mike O'Neill
Is that a good use of AI?

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Robert Joseph PhD
absolutely. Absolutely. One of the things that that happens is that with generative AI, it sees it has seen a lot more than you have. You know, it has digested, a lot of documents, a lot of other people's writings and things like that. And so it it can give you a different insight. Now, ultimately, you're the one that needs to decide if that insight is valuable or not and how to take that insight and make it something that is of value to you.

00:19:25:01 - 00:19:49:17
Robert Joseph PhD
But, you know, I think of Gita today, I sometimes, as you know, that friend that you have that you go and talk to and bounce ideas off of. you know, you don't do everything that friend says, and sometimes that red is just dead wrong about what they're saying. And so you still have to do the same evaluation of, okay, it's telling me this, but is this really the direction I'm going to go in?

00:19:49:17 - 00:20:10:02
Robert Joseph PhD
And does this direction make sense, or does this idea make sense? I know for me, and I can just give an example of where writing is too. You know, we create courses and we actually, have a course on AI for leaders, how to drive value, for and for for leaders. And a lot of this I'm drawing from that.

00:20:10:04 - 00:20:30:18
Robert Joseph PhD
and I want to talk about that in that, that process. But there's some times in which we were, we were doing this course, we were doing this course with another, friend of ours and another company that we went to Stanley together, and we seen a number of different, different, AI projects both be successful and and fail.

00:20:30:20 - 00:20:51:23
Robert Joseph PhD
And there were times in which we were thinking about, okay, what are the different dimensions that we should talk about this and, and we would ask, you know, to I say, hey, we're doing this course. This is the topic. This is what we're saying. Are there other things that we want to think about, or what are some of the things that we want to think about?

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Robert Joseph PhD
And it was interesting because it gave us some angles that when we saw them we're like, oh yeah, that's something that we should, we should talk about or yeah, that's an important thing. But it muddies the water. So we're not going to talk about that here. That might be more advanced, I think, but it allowed us to have another place where we could, you know, get get help.

00:21:22:01 - 00:22:00:23
Robert Joseph PhD
And it's similar to going to scholarly papers, you know, the really great thing, about the internet nowadays is that you can get access to all sorts of information that you weren't able to get access to before. And so I know that sometimes when I'm doing research, especially for doing like a course or doing some other kind of a new thing, I'll go I'll look at scholarly papers and see what they're saying, what they're doing, because they thought about the thing that I'm trying to accomplish in a different perspective, in a different way.

00:22:01:00 - 00:22:07:06
Robert Joseph PhD
And so generally, I just helps to make that sometimes.

00:22:07:08 - 00:22:33:15
Mike O'Neill
You've given great examples of, how you personally and professionally and clients you work with have utilized. I want to shift gears with you just for a moment, and that is we've asked you to reflect on a time where perhaps you got stuck or the client was stuck. And when that happened, what did it take to get unstuck?

00:22:33:17 - 00:23:02:15
Robert Joseph PhD
you ask that question before and there are a few examples that came to mind. But the one example that I want to use now is, is right now one of the places that I was stuck. I've been doing, entrepreneurial endeavors since I was a little kid, you know, eight years old. I sold, decorated matchboxes and frozen cups, you know, back in the, in the early times.

00:23:02:17 - 00:23:29:05
Robert Joseph PhD
And then from that have just been doing, doing different entrepreneurial, endeavors. And so I thought I really I just did entrepreneurship. I have friends that are I've been with as I talk with, I'd read books on it, but in the last few, in the last year, I realized that there was more knowledge that I needed.

00:23:29:07 - 00:23:54:24
Robert Joseph PhD
And so I took a step back and said, you know, let me go and go to some places that have a more formal training and go through that process. And that process has given me some of the subtler things that I mean, I knew about, but it helped to drive things home, and it's helping to drive our company now.

00:23:55:01 - 00:24:22:12
Robert Joseph PhD
And our company is is growing and becoming more and more successful because I, you know, I realized that I didn't think that I needed to build and the reason I tell that story, especially to, to this audience, is that, in looking at listening to some of the, the podcast that the previous podcast and, and a little bit understanding the audiences that there might be, there's always something that people are struggling with.

00:24:22:14 - 00:24:44:08
Robert Joseph PhD
I like in small business, and a lot of times it's it feels like, you know, I've got to kind of do this alone. Well, the people that you work with, they realize that. And so they're like, let me get somebody else. That's a coach that's an expert in this area to help me think through it and to help me give guidance.

00:24:44:10 - 00:25:21:15
Robert Joseph PhD
that understanding can make all the difference in the world. And so, you know, I'm I've learned it and I've learned how to, you know, okay, there's this topic I don't know. Let me go and learn about it, not just for reading articles and stuff like that, but actually, you know, taking classes, that's what we offer is classes to help people to get out of their old way into to, the reason our company's closing mindset is to create that, that shift of thinking, that perspective that makes you more powerful.

00:25:21:17 - 00:25:44:23
Mike O'Neill
You didn't say this in these words, but as you were given that example, which was a great example, your natural tendency is if you want to learn something, is is to go learn it because you're a learned individual. But you said in so many words, I don't want to learn it for learning sake. I want it to open up my eyes and how I can act on what I'm learning.

00:25:45:00 - 00:26:09:17
Mike O'Neill
And when you made reference to being an entrepreneur and what you sold, a lot of our listeners kind of fit that description. They're an entrepreneurs. They have a good idea. they start a business, the business succeeds. But as it does, it begins to highlight things that they may not have familiarity with. And particularly when they're small, they try to do it all.

00:26:09:19 - 00:26:44:16
Mike O'Neill
Yes, yes. And I've seen that both in my consulting role and at particularly is seeing that in my coaching role, because as an organization grows and that person kind of keeps taking on more and more responsibility, there's a sense of isolation almost. Yeah. And I think what I'm hearing you described is that we get sometimes in a frame of mind that there's only one way to do things, and you've kind of opened up my eyes as to how you can use technology such as AI to kind of break that.

00:26:44:18 - 00:26:55:08
Mike O'Neill
You know, as you reflect on this conversation, what do you want to be the takeaways that our viewers and listeners have?

00:26:55:10 - 00:27:25:05
Robert Joseph PhD
And want there to be be several takeaways. one. Think about value and what you can do for your company to drive that value, whether you're a entrepreneur or whether you're a leader, or to a, medium size company or a large company or whatever it is that you're doing. Think about the end game. Don't get caught up in the hype.

00:27:25:05 - 00:27:56:09
Robert Joseph PhD
All oh, you need to use this because it will reduce this or will give you this game. But you need to. Is this because you're trying to drive this value? And if you drive that value in a certain way, that it will get you this day or this opportunity or this efficiency, that should be the first thing that you think about when you think about making a change or using a technology.

00:27:56:11 - 00:28:33:07
Robert Joseph PhD
the other way, the other thing, that's a take away. I'll that I want to, to get people is that. Knowledge is power. And knowledge can come from, you know, hiring business coach. And knowledge can come from taking a course. Our knowledge can come from reading articles. Knowledge allows you to expand where you are. Because if you are doing fine where you are and everything is working great, then you know, keep doing it.

00:28:33:09 - 00:28:53:18
Robert Joseph PhD
But if you think that there is something else that you can be doing something else out there that you want to reach, then you don't have to do it alone. You've got people around you. You've got opportunities around you that can help support that. And so that's the other thing.

00:28:53:20 - 00:29:19:05
Mike O'Neill
Those are excellent, recaps. Before we wrap up, I want to invite our listeners to reflect on a question that affects all leaders. And that is, have you ever wondered why people choose to follow your lead? Is it out of mere obligation, or do they genuinely believe in your vision? It really is true. Leadership thrives on clarity and confidence.

00:29:19:07 - 00:29:52:02
Mike O'Neill
It's not just about command. It's about cultivating practical solutions to drive real bottom line results. I invite you to visit Bench builders.com for a personalized leadership strategies that leverage the fortune 500 insights that I've been able to gain. We're here to elevate your leadership potential and help you make substantial progress towards your goals. So I challenge you to lead in a manner that inspires people to follow because they are drawn to your vision, not merely because they must.

00:29:52:04 - 00:30:10:05
Mike O'Neill
So I encourage you to think about how you can lead with clarity and confidence. Attracting followers not out of obligation, but inspiration. Doctor Joseph, your insight as expected, were invaluable. Thank you for joining us.

00:30:10:07 - 00:30:25:24
Robert Joseph PhD
Thank you very much. You know, like I said, Mike, always a pleasure talking with you. I, you know, when we when we first met, I was like, oh, the sky. Like, I like talking with them, so this was great. Thank you for having it.

00:30:26:00 - 00:30:41:07
Mike O'Neill
Again, it has been my pleasure. And it's mutual. You're, you're easy to chat with. you've been a great guest. If folks want to engage with you further or have some questions, how can they best reach out to you?

00:30:41:09 - 00:31:00:17
Robert Joseph PhD
The best way to reach out to me is through LinkedIn. and if you put in Dr. Robert Joseph all one word, then I'll pop up to the top, link with me and let me know that you watch, or listen to the podcast and, and I'll get back in touch with you and we can go from there.

00:31:00:17 - 00:31:08:04
Robert Joseph PhD
And I would love to understand more about what your needs are and how I can help you.

00:31:08:06 - 00:31:20:12
Mike O'Neill
Well, thank you, Robert, and a big thank you to our subscribers for tuning in. I hope today's discussion has provided you with insights to help you get unstuck and on target.

00:31:22:00 - 00:31:26:00
Mike O'Neill
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Get Unstuck and on Target.

00:31:26:02 - 00:31:46:15
Mike O'Neill
I hope you gain insights to help you lead with competence and drive your organization forward. Remember it, Bench builders. We're committed to your success, your leadership excellence, and your strategic growth. If you've enjoyed our conversation today, please leave a review rate and subscribe to keep up with our latest episode.

00:31:46:24 - 00:31:50:24
Mike O'Neill
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00:31:50:23 - 00:31:54:11
Mike O'Neill
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00:31:54:20 - 00:32:02:00
Mike O'Neill
Until next time, I encourage you to stay. Focus on the target and continue to break new ground on your leadership path.